Episode 30: Hill & Harbor Design+Build’s Journey To Success With Paul Vespia

In episode 30 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, we’re joined by Paul Vespia, founder of Hill & Harbor Design+Build, based in East Greenwich, United States. Throughout this episode, we learn about Paul's story and how he created Hill & Harbor Design+Build.

Hill & Harbor Design+Build was founded on the idea that Homes on “the Hill” have a historical factor that make them unique and desirable, and that the “Harbor” is another quintessential trademark of their business, as Rhode Island boasts some of the most beautiful shorelines in the world that the team has expansive knowledge of, and can utilise to the fullest. 

However, Hill & Harbor Design+Build wasn’t built in a day, and throughout this episode, Paul shares the mistakes he’s made along the way that have eventually shaped his building company into what it’s become today.

Listen to the full episode to discover Paul, and Hill & Harbor Design+Build’s Journey To Success.

 

Paul Vespia - Founder of Hill & Harbor Design+Build

Paul Vespia is the founder and main person behind Hill & Harbor Design + Build. He is often jokingly referred to as “the man behind the curtain” due to his involvement in all areas of the business behind the scenes. He focuses his efforts on Project Development and is responsible for the vision and how to get there in a project and as a business. Hill & Harbor Design + Build’s model is driven by a trusted process that takes the stress out of any home project. 

Connect with Paul

 

Timeline

1:06 About Paul and Hill & Harbor Design+Build

4:46 The beginning of Paul’s journey.

8:10 The mistakes that have shaped Paul’s success. 

9:33 The difference between ‘design-build’ and ‘design-bid-build’.

11:51 Where Hill & Harbor started vs where it is today.

13:55 How Paul ended up joining APB.

16:02 The impact coaching has had on Paul’s building company.

20:25 What Paul loves about running a professional building company.

21:32 The future of Hill & Harbor.

23:55 Challenges that builders are overcoming right now.

25:38 Paul’s advice for other builders.

28:09 Why more people are investing in new homes.

31:19 What success looks like today for Paul.

 

Links, Resources & More

Hill & Harbor Design+Build

APB Website

APB on Instagram

APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing.

Bosco Anthony:

Welcome everyone. We have another great episode from the Professional Builders Secrets podcast. I'm joined today by Paul Vespia, founder of Hill & Harbor Design+Build in East Greenwich in the U.S. How are you today, Paul?

Paul Vespia:

I'm doing great, Bosco. Thank you for having me.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, tell us a little bit about Hill & Harbor Design+Build.

Paul Vespia:

Sure. I started Hill & Harbor in 2018. I had left a business that I was working for full time. I had a lot of great groundwork from previous businesses that I had worked for, so I thought it was really time for me to go out. There were a lot of things that I saw in the business itself that I thought could be changed. One of those things was really to have the client at the forefront and do everything best for the client to get them from point A to point B in a business like this. I wanted to change the typical experience that clients had in a construction project or a remodelling or a new build for their home.

Bosco Anthony:

You talked about the fact that you left a full-time job. You pretty much took a leap at that point because, like most people, when they get into that entrepreneur mindset, they're going from what we call steady income and a steady paycheque to actually now hustling to build a business. What was that like?

Paul Vespia:

I had always been doing some things on the side as well. An interesting thing that people don't see from looking at our website or looking at my bio is that I actually dropped out of high school when I was 15 years old and started working in this industry. I was off on my own; I had left my family at that point. I was 15 years old, I was feeding myself and clothing myself. So, I’ve always had that drive to do my own thing. In 2018, it was an interesting time because my wife was about four months pregnant at the time when I went out and did my own thing.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Paul Vespia:

That was actually going to be our second child. It was a little stressful. I felt like I had the good groundwork to be able to do so, and I thought I had enough experience to be able to go out there and make it happen.

Bosco Anthony:

So you chose this path mostly because there was something burning inside of you that wanted you to do something better to change the industry as well, is what I'm getting from this.

Paul Vespia:

You hear the nightmare stories from a lot of people. I'm sure you have friends or relatives even who talk about the nightmare stories that they've had during construction projects. I wanted people to really feel like they were having a great experience from working with us from day one and all the way through their construction project. They're never perfect, but what I've been told is they're 99% better than other projects that they've been through.

Bosco Anthony:

I noticed you have design and build at the end of your company name. Did you always start out with design and build, or did it start off with design and then eventually move into build?

Paul Vespia:

I dropped out of high school, like I said, and then I found that I didn't want to work with my hands for the rest of my life. I had that experience to physically build a house, but I got my GED [General Educational Development Test] before most of my friends graduated from high school. After that, after working for about five years in the field in different aspects of the business, I actually went back to college and got a degree in architecture and engineering. I've always had that kind of design stuff behind me. When I was in college, I was working for an architect as well, doing conceptual designs and renderings and overall textual interiors and things like that. So my overall vision for the company was to be an all-inclusive, one-stop shop essentially, for anything to do with a home.

Bosco Anthony:

Right. Take me through the process of what it was like starting out your business and how you were attracting business and getting potential customers back then. I'm sure at that point, being on your own, it must have been pretty intimidating as well.

Paul Vespia:

It was. Like I had mentioned, I had a lot of great experience from where I had worked. With one particular business where I was the end person, as soon as somebody came in the door as a lead, I would take them from that point all the way through to finishing the project as the project manager. So I had a lot of those skills necessary to be a sales type person. I was terrible at it in the beginning. I used to go to meetings with clients and be dripping with sweat because I was just so nervous. But that's actually the most fun I have now at this point in my career, working with clients in the beginning and sharing how we're doing things so differently.

Paul Vespia:

It was a little terrifying. I mean, going out on my own with a baby coming, and you know that women are pretty hormonal at that point when they're having children as well. So that wasn't easy. I'm not blaming anything on her, but there were a lot of very anxiety-ridden nights. The funny thing is, in our first year in business, we actually did just under $1 million.

Bosco Anthony:

Wow.

Paul Vespia:

So, I connected with the right people at the right time. I know APB talks a lot about mindset, and I actually stopped drinking in 2014 and started really digging into my life. At that point, I had gone through a lot of personal stuff. It was about changing my mindset from that point until 2018 when I was out, my mindset had shifted in believing in myself and believing in other people and putting my thoughts out there to do something better with my life, and the universe kind of opening up for me at that point. I really felt like that had happened. I think it was two and a half months into me leaving and starting my own business that I had my first project.

Bosco Anthony:

Do you feel like this business venture and this choice to go out on your own and then the business performing financially as well, do you feel like that's what prompted you to find your purpose in life in some ways as well?

Paul Vespia:

Yeah. There's a couple of things that I'm working on, too. I don't think this business is my ultimate purpose. I think this business is an avenue for me to fulfil my ultimate purpose.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah.

Paul Vespia:

I do love what I do. I'm not saying I would completely just go away. I mean, we do have stressful days and I think everybody does, but the idea is to be able to work with people who love to come to work and help people, give them that opportunity to really do what they love to do. And then I have some other goals in the back of my mind that I'm working towards long term that I think fit my overall purpose in life.

Bosco Anthony:

So you feel like this business today is almost like a vehicle to achieve some of those goals as well in many ways?

Paul Vespia:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Bosco Anthony:

You talked a little bit about how you had that classical sales experience, where you were anxious, and you were sweating as well. Take me through some of those classic mistakes that you've made to date that you are really proud of. I say really proud of, because most people that I've met in life who've built successful businesses credit a lot of their success back to those mistakes. So I'm just curious if you look back on your illustrious career, what are some of those mistakes that come to mind that you look back on now and shake your head and say, “I'll never make that mistake again,” but you're really proud of that mistake?

Paul Vespia:

There are too many to count. The perfectionist in me has been an issue with mistakes in my life, and trying to be perfect in this industry is very difficult. I think a lot of mistakes come from that perfectionism. I still struggle with that a little bit, but that perfectionism gives you that anxiety, it gives you that energy, and then you're p****d off for two days because of it. 

Paul Vespia:

I don't think there's one particular instance that I can point out that it was an absolute mistake where I thought, “Well, I'm never going to do that again.” I think it's a combination of day-to-day interactions that you're working through. You start out as a one-man band essentially, a one-man show. You have to push through those issues and those mistakes and not get caught up on them. You still have to learn from them, and that's how you develop as a person, too. But if you sink into those mistakes, that's when it's over.

Bosco Anthony:

Right. I noticed when I was doing my research on your website, you articulated the difference between design-bid-build versus design-build. And I think for our listeners, it's really important to know the difference as well. Are you able to share a little bit about what the key difference are between the two terms?

Paul Vespia:

I think that the industry standard for most projects, bigger projects in either new home builds or bigger renovation projects is the design-bid-build method. Somebody will go to an architect or an interior designer and put together drawings, fully design a project, and spend a lot of money in that design phase to then send things out to bid to three different contractors. Then you get numbers back as a homeowner and you're expected to go through that and understand the terminology and everything that goes along with it, and then be able to choose a contractor from that point, too. The issue we've found with that in studying design-bid-build versus design-build is that nobody's on the same page from day one. So, in our aspect of design-build, everybody's on the same page from day one.

Paul Vespia:

We're designing the project, and we're developing a budget along with that project. So, we're designing and budgeting at the same time. Then we have different players or team members in our business that plug in at certain points. We have a project developer who develops all of the things that go along with permitting, budgeting, design, architecture and interior, and then an interior designer who plugs in at a certain point in the design phase. Most projects are driven by the woman in the project, right? Most of the time. So we found an opportunity to have a woman be able to take the lead with the woman who’s doing the project and they develop a very symbiotic relationship at that point. Then we have a project manager who plugs in and deals with the construction portion of it.

Paul Vespia:

But I think the main difference is that I've heard a lot of people talk about the challenges that go along with the design-bid-build method because everybody's not on the same page. There's blowouts in budgets and timelines and the client is in the middle of all this, trying to manage all of it. We're here to really manage the whole process for the client and take them step-by-step through that project.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk about transforming your business a little bit, because your business has grown obviously since the days when it was a one-man show. What do you think is the contributing factor that's led to that transformation for your business and what does Hill & Harbor Design+Build look like? What does it look like today?

Paul Vespia:

The first two years were me alone and I was developing a lot of the business end of things in the background with the thought of scaling at some point. As of today, we have five other team members who are working with us now and we're running nine projects at the moment in construction.

Bosco Anthony:

Wow.

Paul Vespia:

Yeah. So we have nine projects in construction. We have another eight projects in design, so a total of 17 projects running at one time. They’re all in different phases, obviously, but it's really about allowing other people to come into the business and train them appropriately to do what they love to do, but also do it in a way that I know that works. In working with APB, they've helped develop a lot of those processes along with me and shown me the ways to get from basically zero to one and develop the business overall and to be able to do it systematically and safely.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm going to ask how you actually landed on meeting the team at APB. But before we do that, you just threw a number at me that I want to explore. How do you do this? If you've got 17 projects, how do you not pull your hair out at night? Do you have some whiz software? How does everything stay so succinct, I guess?

Paul Vespia:

I'm meeting with a client tomorrow who is in design. We've been working with them for about a month and it's really about processes and systems that allow us to do this. The way that we have our estimating software and our project management software, we use BuildTools as our project management software. That's also our client portal. There's a lot of different systems and processes in place behind the scenes that people never see, that help us be able to develop and build projects very effectively and efficiently.

Bosco Anthony:

Right. Okay. So, tell me about how you came across APB. You told me earlier today that you were part of their elite coaching, but how did you become a member and how did you hear from them?

Paul Vespia:

In 2019 I wanted to find a business coach or a mentor similar to what I had previously, but I almost had too much pride to go back to the other guy, even though he's done really well. He's basically doing the same thing. Not the same thing that APB does, but he would've helped me if I’d asked him to, but I was looking to develop into something different to what he was. 

Paul Vespia:

So in about middle or late 2019, I started looking at business coaches. I was looking specifically for construction business coaches. There were only one or two that I was coming across. ABP really stood out to me, and we're talking to almost three years ago. They had a lot of stuff in place that really made sense to me about how this business should run from what I had learned from my previous mentor, and it also opened my eyes to a lot of other things that would allow me to grow my business really, really quickly and effectively.

Bosco Anthony:

You started off as a member, I'm assuming?

Paul Vespia:

I jumped in right into their coaching. I was a member and I got into their regular coaching program and I actually work with Andy [Andy Skarda, Head Coach]. I've worked with him since day one. I jumped in with the monthly membership program to be able to develop the business. I'm not sure if they offer anything else right now that's on a lower tier than that, but I really wanted to fast track the growth of the business and I thought the best way to do it was working with somebody like him.

Bosco Anthony:

I love Andy; I actually learned a lot about the construction industry. Even through this podcast, I've had the opportunity and privilege to interview him a few times. He's the king of analogies, as I say. But when you're going through the membership and then you start off with the coaching, and I think now you're in the elite coaching as well, what's that impact been on your business? You've talked about systems, and I know that anyone who joins APB has access to their entire portal of resources and systems as well, but where did the impact really elevate Hill & Harbor Design+Build through the coaching?

Paul Vespia:

Realistically, the business was just me when I started with Andy.

Bosco Anthony:

Okay.

Paul Vespia:

And within two years’ time, we're now up to six, including me. That's a testament to doing it effectively and safely and still maintaining the margins and really expanding our business effectively.

Bosco Anthony:

So you've seen growth, you've seen revenue growth, you've seen an increase in sales, you've seen the ability and systems to run multiple projects, and you've probably also gone through this phase now of being a little bit more financially aware of everything as well, right?

Paul Vespia:

Absolutely. So 2018, we did $1 million. In 2019, I was stuck at $1 million. I couldn't do any more myself.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah.

Paul Vespia:

It was impossible. It's not just a construction company, I was also designing works, doing sales, doing all of this stuff.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah.

Paul Vespia:

The ability to really start focusing on the business itself rather than in the business, I think is what helped develop everything that we've worked on. We’re looking at financials and KPIs, quarterly goals, yearly goals and three-year goals and developing our employees on some of the stuff that we're working on with ABP in their portal, working on client stuff. There's so much that goes into this business that people don't realise; if you want to be successful, you can't just go out there and do it yourself. It's nearly impossible. You have to have people. The best athletes in the world have great coaches – that's the way I look at it.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Paul Vespia:

The best athletes have a nutrition coach, they have a head coach, they have a physical coach, whatever it is. I think people who are trying to get to the level of the people who are working with ABP understand that. And the people who don't, I think will struggle a lot through their careers.

Bosco Anthony:

What really impresses me, being on the outside, is their passion and commitment to really changing the industry. Because the industry in the past has had a stigma, they're really committed to driving that professional outlook and output as well from this industry. If you look back now, who do you think this elite coaching is for? Obviously, you've been there for a while and you've worked with them, and you've broken your $1 million as well, because that was a barrier at one point. What type of builder could really benefit from the type of coaching you've received?

Paul Vespia:

I think it would benefit anybody who's stepped up into the monthly membership program and is working through the development of their business and themselves. I'm sure this podcast reaches a lot of people. So, I think anybody really who wants to have a successful career and not feel like they're in a daily grind every single day and trying to figure out everything themselves could very much benefit from everything that ABP does.

Paul Vespia:

Like you said, they’re professional, and I’ve seen that from day one, but there’s more to it than that. I've worked with Andy, like I said, and he actually cares about the people he's working with. It's not just a coaching situation; he and I talk about a lot of different things. For somebody who wants to really develop their business and wants to be successful in what they’re doing, I would highly suggest investing the money into developing themselves and their business with this type of program, because it just takes you to the next level. It gets you out of the mindset of being in the day-to-day and really looking at the overall business and the impact that you can potentially make. 

Bosco Anthony:

Something that really echoes with me is when you said that you are investing not in just a coach, but in a person. When I've been chatting with Andy, what I've learned as well is that he can't do eight, 10, 15 coaching sessions in one day because he literally puts in so much energy. All the coaches put a lot of energy into it, so that they need a gap in between to process and get back, because they're giving their energy, it's not just their insights, right?

Paul Vespia:

Right.

Bosco Anthony:

So, yeah, you're right. I think it's a difference between being coached and having someone who's there by your side as well. It sounds like you're having a lot of fun right now and it sounds like you're a lot more relaxed today as well with where you're at. What do you love about running this company and where it's going today? Obviously, you've seen this transformation, but what wakes you up in the morning and gets you excited to do the work you do today?

Paul Vespia:

I think I may have touched on it. It's about being able to give other people the opportunity to do what they love. I really think that's truly it. This business isn't just about me anymore. It really hasn't been since day one; I've tried to set it up that way. I'm trying to set this up as a brand rather than a personal face. A lot of businesses that you see nowadays are based on one person. I don't want it to be that overarching one person business so that it's only doing something good for one person. I want it to be a part of everybody who's here to help build Hill & Harbor Design+Build. It's about them enjoying what they're doing, enjoying the clients they're working with and being able to be financially impacted by that too. The growth of the business isn't just for me, it's for them as well.

Bosco Anthony:

You talk a little bit about building that brand. That's where you're driving into. What's the future play for this brand and what are you focusing on today to try to fuse that future?

Paul Vespia:

I deal a lot with clients in the beginning of projects to get them into our process. It's not as difficult as it was when I was first starting out. We've built a great reputation at this point. My idea is to develop the business and systemise it so it becomes almost like a franchise type business. Not that I want to franchise it. The overall vision that I'm seeing is the ability to plug this into different areas of the country. Meaning, up in Boston, Massachusetts, or down in DC, in Florida and have what I call ‘pods’ where we could set up the business and have the business run exactly like it does in Rhode Island where it started. It has the overall arching brand, but it has its own niche market in that particular area too.

Paul Vespia:

The reason why I named our company Hill & Harbor is because it's actually a historic district that's in East Greenwich, Rhode Island. But I also named it that because of the houses that we wanted to work on. Traditionally, up in the hill is where the historic homes are nowadays and then down in the harbor are the coastal homes that we work on.

Bosco Anthony:

For our Australian listeners, historic homes are almost like heritage homes. Is that correct? 

Paul Vespia:

Yep, heritage homes.

Bosco Anthony:

Okay.

Paul Vespia:

We work on a lot of houses that were built probably a lot earlier than some of the ones that are in Australia. I think the latest one that we worked on was built in 1760. We work on anything from the historic standpoint, but we work on very particular homes. That's the idea, to be able to plug that into other areas, like down in Virginia as well. There's a lot of areas that have a coastal aspect of their area and then also up in the hill per se, are the historic or heritage homes.

Bosco Anthony:

So, you're looking at market expansion in the future as well in different geographical areas? Is that something that's on the horizon as well?

Paul Vespia:

Yeah, that's exactly it. The idea is to systemise the business completely so it's consistently running the way we would like it to, and then start plugging it into different areas.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk a little bit about the industry. You've brought about some interesting concepts, but obviously, we are living in an unprecedented time as they say. What are some of the struggles that builders face today in the industry as well, and for the new builders getting into this industry, what are some of those common challenges and barriers that they have to overcome?

Paul Vespia:

I think there's a huge issue with the pandemic obviously, and the effects that that's taking on the industry itself. Costs have skyrocketed, but it seems like people are still spending money, which is really interesting to me. There's also a huge labour shortage. I think a lot of people have been talking about it for the last 20 to 30 years and it's upon us now; the baby boomers are retiring. Not a lot of people are coming in to fill those gaps.

Bosco Anthony:

Tell me a little perspective around the labour shortages as well. What do you feel is the problem? Is there a lack of apprenticeships that companies need to put together? Is there a lack of training in schools? What is the shortage being fuelled by?

Paul Vespia:

Because this industry has such a stigma, people of my age with parents who are in the baby boomer range had seen some of their parents working in this industry and it was very unsexy. It was not a clean job. It's not sitting behind a computer. I can only speak about Americans because that's where I live – I'm not sure if this is the same in Canada or Australia – but it seems like it's a very unsexy type of industry, where people don't want to go out and get dirty and work hard. As I said, I think there's a huge opportunity for people who want to grind, like you and I were talking about in the beginning, to build great businesses, because there's not a lot of people going into this business.

Bosco Anthony:

Tell me a little bit, Paul, about what your advice would be to the builders out there, both new and the veterans out there who want to transform their businesses. You've seen it from different perspectives being in the business as a one-man band and then growing it. What's your perspective for them?

Paul Vespia:

From the outside, I think you need to be learning from everybody around you. Learn from the right people, work with somebody to help you develop this business, if this is something that you really want to do. Don’t be the guy out of the back of the truck; really develop a business that can allow you to do a lot more things with your life. I think you truly need somebody like APB to help you through that process. And invest in yourself. In the beginning, I know it's tough with financials, but if you don't invest in yourself with either self-help or other forms of that, like a coaching program, it's very difficult for people who have those aspirations of driving a business to be better and bigger and do more things for their lifestyle. I think it's very difficult if you don't do those things.

Paul Vespia:

Even the veteran builders too, the guys who are out in the field still and physically building houses and doing renovation projects. There's a time where they've built a very good reputation as well from that aspect of it. I don't think it's ever too late to be able to transition and transform your business. I always think back to the KFC model, Kentucky Fried Chicken, where the Colonel didn't create that business until he was in his late 60s. I think there's always an opportunity, especially in this business right now to transform your business pretty quickly. I started in 2018, we're projected to do $6.5 million this year and we're looking at taking on other team members too.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you've put a lot of love into this as well because the takeaway that I'm getting from this is you went from being a one-man band to growing the team. That comes with a lot of trust, a lot of trial and error, getting the right dynamics and culture, and also having someone by your side to give you the systems, to give you the resources. The knowledge has really changed a lot of what you're doing today as well.

Paul Vespia:

I've put in a lot of work to get to this point.

Bosco Anthony:

Do you feel you're at a stage now where you're working on the business, not in the business?

Paul Vespia:

I'm still straddling.

Bosco Anthony:

Okay. I appreciate your honesty, that's for sure. Let's talk a little bit about the industry. You talked a little bit about the labour shortage, and you talked about the fact that people are investing in homes, even though the costs are rising. Do you feel that's being driven by that fact that there's a lot more people working from home and so they want to have a home that they can work and live in at the same time? Do you think that's driving it?

Paul Vespia:

Absolutely. I think it touches on a lot of the type of people or type of clients we work with as well. A lot of the surrounding area in Rhode Island is all coastline, so with the ability to work remotely, we're seeing a huge influx of people coming in from bigger cities who were scared of the pandemic, but who are also saying, “I can work from anywhere now. I can go buy a waterfront property in Rhode Island for the same amount that I would pay for a condo in New York. Why wouldn't I do that?” 

Paul Vespia:

So, there's been a huge influx of people from different areas of the country coming into our area particularly, who have invested a huge amount of money into their properties because they're there all the time. They want the beautiful, professional kitchen, a great office where they can get away from everybody, an area for the kids, a gym and all these other things.

Paul Vespia:

The home has become what I think it used to be, before everybody started going into offices and people were working in the farms or on the land, or even in their own stores. You still see some of them on main streets in America, where people would live above the store that they would work in, that they owned. It's kind of transitioned back to that, which is really interesting because people are working in the office, in the basement, or at the second level, but they have their own gym in the house and they have the kids’ area where they can do homework and they have a library, and it's really become a holistic home again, rather than it just being a place where you sleep.

Bosco Anthony:

Right. This is a hard question to ask, obviously with everything that's going on, but where do you feel the state of the residential industry is evolving to in the U.S. specifically?

Paul Vespia:

I think people are expecting more. I think that's where we're trying to take it as well. People want the experience; they want a kind of white glove service. They want it done for them. A lot of businesses have been built on that up until this point in different industries where it's kind of that red carpet type, white glove service. So I think that's where it's transitioning to for a certain market of the business. People don't want to worry about the process and the project. They want somebody to handle that for them. At least in the market that we are in, those clientele are expecting more from us, which is completely fine because I think that's going to drive a transition in the way that this business is for other markets as well. And I think APB is developing that with the people that they're working with right now too.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah, it's really impressive to see the things that are coming out of there as well. It sounds like it's creating this accountability, which the industry needs as well. Let's talk a little bit about success mindsets. At the time, you wanted to break $1 million; you've grown the team, you've cracked $6.5 million, or you're projected to crack $6.5 million. What does success look like to you today? Not when you started, but today when you wake up in the morning, how do you create that gauge, that barometer for success today?

Paul Vespia:

It's changed dramatically. Initially, when we started out, it was about dollars. Andy and I have worked a lot on this through our process together. It's a part of my life too, right now. I have two little ones and a wife, and my success is being able to walk out the door at 4 o'clock and go spend time with my kids and my wife. I only get a certain amount of time that they're going to be four and two years old.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. Fair enough.

Paul Vespia:

Yeah. That's truly how I'm looking at this now. That's where I wanted to be too when I initially came on with working with APB. I wanted to get to a point where the business was successfully running itself, where I would plug in where I wanted to be and then I would be able to spend as much time as possible with my kids and go to all the baseball games and go to all the dance recitals and do all of that stuff with them.

Bosco Anthony:

I was going to ask you about the future of Hill & Harbor Design+Build, but you've already answered that from a geographical perspective. So I'm going to ask you a past question rather than a future question, which is, if you had to go back in time and you had to give yourself, a younger version of yourself some advice, what point in your life would you go back in time to and what advice would you give?

Paul Vespia:

That's a tough one. It's kind of what I already touched on. It’s not to be too hard on yourself.

Bosco Anthony:

Fair enough. That's good advice as well. It's an industry where you are your harshest critic and it can be very isolating. So I think that's some really sound advice. I'm just curious, man, before we end this interview, I've been looking at a quote behind you that's on the wall. Obviously, it means something to you, which is why it's up there, but I'm just curious to know what it says and what it means to you.

Paul Vespia:

Well, there's actually four quotes up there and this is from a book that APB actually put up on their program for us to read.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Paul Vespia:

Don't make assumptions; Don't take anything personally; Be impeccable with your word; and Always do your best.

Bosco Anthony:

That's pretty cool. I think Andy and the team would be really happy that you actually have that on the wall. So, that's really cool.

Paul Vespia:

Yeah. Andy's actually seen that. That was something, when we first moved into this office, I put up on the wall.

Bosco Anthony:

Amazing.

Paul Vespia:

That's client facing. You know, clients sit at the table there and are able to see that. And that's really what we're trying to live by, not just in the business, but in life in general. I think it's helpful to try and be a better person every day.

Bosco Anthony:

Any final words of wisdom before we wrap this up, Paul?

Paul Vespia:

For people who are just starting out, I think like you said, having that successful mindset and really believing in yourself can go a long way. I came from absolutely nothing. I had a good family growing up to a certain point, but then I had to take things on myself to be able to get to the next level in life. Work with those people around you who you want to be around and learn from them and have a plan. Keep moving.

Bosco Anthony:

Some inspiring words to live by, my friend, and I want to thank you today for your time and your energy and for exposing a little bit about your past and your story as well. It's very inspiring to see where you've come and where you're going as well, but I really appreciate the candour as well.

Paul Vespia:

Thank you. I appreciate it, Bosco.