Episode 33: How To Create A Case Study With Sky Stephens

In episode 33 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, we’re joined by Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders Sky Stephens. Throughout this episode, we go over why although difficult at times, it is so important to collect case studies from your clients.

During this episode, Sky tackles why consumers are looking for reasons not to trust you, but how once you’ve gained that trust, the rewards are more than worth the effort you put in.

Through a trusting relationship with your clients, you can get some fantastic case studies that can not only bring in new clients, but also act as a fantastic way to keep you and your team accountable for success.

Sky also goes over the key differences between a Case Study and a Testimonial, as well as the important role storytelling plays in a case study, and some of the best examples of case studies she’s personally seen.

Listen to the full episode to learn how to create the perfect case study.

 

Sky Stephens - Co-founder

Sky Stephens is a Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, a business coaching company dedicated to improving the residential construction industry for both builders and consumers. Sky is a proud member of The National Association of Women in Construction and she was also recognised as one of 2021’s Top 100 Women. 

Connect with Sky

 

Timeline

1:06 What does success look like for a professional builder.

2:16 Why is it so important to collect case studies from your clients.

3:39 Why consumers are looking for reasons not to trust you.

6:52 How getting case studies from your clients is hard, but worth it. 

8:53 How case studies help keep you and your team accountable for success.

10:27 Case study vs a testimonial.

15:10 How storytelling plays into your case studies.

16:19 How to manage the obstacles when creating a case study.

19:49 An example of the best case studies Sky has seen.

23:01 Where do you use a case study?

27:23 Content trends in residential construction. 

29:31 Resources to get started. 

33:12 Sky’s camera advice.

 

Links, Resources & More

APB Website

APB on Instagram

APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company, from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing. We have yet another exciting episode from the Professional Builders Secrets podcast. I'm joined by Co-founder Sky Stephens for APB. Thanks for being in today, Sky.

Sky Stephens:

Thanks, Bosco. How are you?

Bosco Anthony:

I'm doing well. It's been a hot minute since we last spoke. We wanted to get into the success barometer of what success looks like for a home builder today.

Sky Stephens:

We'll just kick off with the biggest question ever, shall we? We've actually gone through this question in multiple prior episodes. This is where we can incorporate a lot of different things. Success to any professional building company is delivering an exceptional product with an exceptional experience for their clients, but always remember it's making money doing it. It's all of that.

Bosco Anthony:

So it doesn't have to be exclusively one or the other. What you're saying is you're fusing the quality of the service with home builders making a profit.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah, absolutely. The two things can be true. Honestly, the two things actually have to go hand in hand. This is what we say all the time: builders can't deliver a world class service on tiny margins. So if you’re a professional builder, you should continue to go ahead and deliver those exceptional quality homes that you are delivering day in, day out. Make sure the service and experience you are delivering is second to none. But please, always make sure you are making money doing it, that you've got good, high margins that can take care of the company and all of its staff.

Bosco Anthony:

Why is it so important in today's market for home builders to create and collect case studies?

Sky Stephens:

Well, that's the bottom line of the proof, isn't it? So they can deliver those beautiful homes. They can get photos from those homes, but really in this day and age with the internet, people can start nicking pictures from anywhere. You can even download your competitor's photos of their finished products. I have heard of this happening in the industry, where certain members of APB are sharing the story that the competitor down the street is using their photos from a project.

Sky Stephens:

So photos are one thing, but I think introducing a case study that’s written is important. Video is even better; that is something that you could fake, but that's a lot of effort to go to. Introducing a real case study is that extra layer of proof for consumers that allows people to trust you. They get to know you, like you and trust you even more, because of what they can see in terms of the actual project getting completed. Hearing from past clients talking about their experience with you is so important.

Bosco Anthony:

You talk about trust, and, for me, I feel like that's a really important topic to open up the can of worms. Do you feel like the industry has changed? And when it comes to trust, was there a stigma in the past where builders were looked at differently? Do you feel like that's evolved, and the industry's just changing?

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. I think, in general, people are less and less trusting. As the internet has evolved, we always say that people are looking for reasons not to trust us, rather than reasons to trust us. If, for example, someone is looking at your website and they see in the footer, “Copyright 2011,” they think, "Whoa, that's not been updated in a really long time. That's something odd, I’m not sure about that,” and it’s a reason for them not to trust you.

Sky Stephens:

So in general, I think people are getting less and less trusting, but especially in an industry like the residential construction industry. This is big money getting thrown about. This industry, let's be honest, doesn't have the best reputation with every consumer. So there's a lot of wariness out there. There are a lot of horror stories people have heard, so people aren't instantly trusting of anyone in this industry. So, utilising proof like a case study can really help overcome that and build up that trust a lot more quickly than just a conversation one-on-one.

Bosco Anthony:

You bring a really great point: consumers have been burnt before as well, where they've had not the best experiences in some cases. In this day and age, everybody has a review or an opinion that can be found online as well. So there's a digital footprint if you're not managing that trust, too.

Sky Stephens:

Good and bad, that's the thing. I should probably get a proper stat on this, but I think it's 10 times, we’re about 10 times more likely to write a review after a bad experience than we are after a good experience. So there are going to be people who aren't happy with any company, I don't care how amazing you are. You can't please everybody. But what you can control is all of your good publicity. So you can actually control getting positive reviews on those platforms. But then you should obviously go that extra step ahead and get it on camera and on video and make a point of getting ahead in that way.

Bosco Anthony:

That's interesting, because this conversation is not only just talking about credibility for sales, but it's also about reputation management as well. Because most of the time a lot of us will look at five-star reviews and make decisions based on those little, tiny objects that sit on a website. So it's interesting that you bring that up.

Sky Stephens:

This is like building a home. Again, it's one of those things: you can see all these five-star reviews and you think, “Okay.” But I think now we're all a bit more switched on, we wonder, “Are they real?” We have these questions. So just because we're asking those questions, “Are they real? Is this legit?” we might be questioning it, but it's not a reason not to get those five-star reviews, it's a reason to do more. Get more of those reviews, but then go further, get those video success stories, video case studies, do completed galleries of all your finished homes, keep your socials up to date. Like you say, it's that trust factor.

Bosco Anthony:

So what do you have to say to builders who come to you and say, "How do you motivate customers to give you a case study?" Do you get actual builders who come into your coaching program who say, "But Sky, it's hard getting these case studies and testimonials and it's so much work.” What do you say to that?

Sky Stephens:

I agree; it is. At the end of the day, of course it’s hard work, because if it was super easy, wouldn't every single professional builder just have them coming out of their ears? Every single builder, not just professional builders, every builder would. So it actually is work, but like everything we do at APB, you can create a system and systematically roll it out, and just ensure you are proactively asking for them.

Sky Stephens:

I think the biggest mistake people make is to not realise that case studies don't just happen. You can't just deliver an amazing home with an exceptional experience, and just expect the clients are going to say great things. It comes back to people being 10 times more likely to write a negative review rather than a positive review after an experience. So how can you motivate your customers, your clients who you've built for, to give a case study? Quite frankly, you ask them. But there's a lot of work that goes into making sure that by the time you ask them, you know what the answer is and they're falling over themselves to talk about you.

Sky Stephens:

That comes back to delivering an exceptional product with an exceptional service. Mistakes happen, things happen. You'll be working with your clients for six, nine, 12 or 18 months before you get to that handover point, if you're doing the design and build, so things are going to be happening. But when a problem happened, how did you proactively solve it for them? You're getting judged on every single thing. If you can keep exceeding their expectations and just being that constant to them, you want to make sure by time you go ahead and actually ask them to participate in a video testimonial or a video case study, you know their answer is going to be yes. They'll be falling over themselves.

Sky Stephens:

Then it's just admin at that point, getting it all set up. You get your camera crew there. You can get all the filming and photography done, and that becomes the easiest bit. I think the biggest hurdle is actually getting the agreement to do it.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like what you're saying is also it holds the owners accountable for success as well. And sort of be responsible to push the envelope, not just deliver a service in many ways, too.

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. As you scale your building company, as the owner, you are most likely not going to be involved with every single client anymore. So, if you can have goals internally for your company, you want X number of reviews or you want a referral after every project or you want at least X number of video case studies a year, that ensures your team is still delivering that exceptional product with an exceptional service, so people are still happy to get on camera and actually share that.

Bosco Anthony:

You just brought up an interesting point, too. You just said, as a business owner, you might not be across all the clients. So now you need to have a system to make sure that your staff are actually doing what they need to do and delivering things on time.

Sky Stephens:

Totally, and it shouldn't be down to anyone remembering. You want to put something as simple as a case study into a process. The thing is, you can get these case studies done at any point in time in the process. Obviously, probably the easiest one is at handover, once they've got their beautiful new home, because they're all excited. Or even once they've had it all furnished and kitted out and they’ve had it all decorated, because you can get much more beautiful photos from that point. You can ask for a review/referral case study at any point in the process, you just need to catch them on a win, catch them on a success.

Bosco Anthony:

And catch them when they're in a good mood, as well. It helps.

Sky Stephens:

Well, exactly. You don't ask them when there's a problem happening, right?

Bosco Anthony:

That's true. Well, let's rip the Band-Aid off and let's get into what goes into a successful case study, and what are you seeing today that's delivering results?

Sky Stephens:

There's an art to delivering a good professional case study that actually works, and there's a big difference between a testimonial and a case study.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's dig a little deeper into the differences between the two.

Sky Stephens:

A testimonial is when someone just speaks and praises your building company, which might I add is fantastic. You do want them. I'm not saying they're not great at all. But a testimonial is, quite frankly, all about you and your building company. "I absolutely loved Bosco from Bosco Custom Homes. He couldn't have done a better job. Love everything about the process, blah, blah, blah." That's a testimonial and you want a ton of them.

Sky Stephens:

But what gives a lot of clout in your entire marketing process that will help in your sales process is producing what we've been talking about, which is a case study. A case study is a little bit different because it’s a story and it focuses on the client. You as the builder and your building company just helped them win the day. So the case study is all about them. "With such and such, we were looking to design and build a custom home in this area. We'd actually built before, but it was a horrific experience. So we were really concerned this time around. We were doing a lot of research. We happened to stumble across XYZ Builders," that's your building company.

Sky Stephens:

"We went through the whole process. We were able to ask so many questions and we got the home of our dreams. Now we can have our grandchildren over wherever, blah, blah, blah." You can see in that small off the cuff example of a case study, it's all about the clients. The builder was mentioned as a means to get the client what they wanted.

Sky Stephens:

That's what you want as a case study, because when that happens, when you get that on camera, and you get to promote that in your sales and your marketing, it's other prospective clients who get to see themselves in those clients who are on camera and can relate to them. They’ll be thinking, "Well, you know what? If they solved their problem, I'm exactly like that, I had the same experience,” or “We want the same outcome. I love what they had. I can see myself in that person." They're then thinking, “Okay, what did they do to solve that problem? Oh, well they went and talked to that building company. That's what I should do.” Does that make sense?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. You've crafted where they were in their journey from the customer's lens: what the problem was that they were encountering, what prompted them to reach out to the building company, what some of the actions were that they loved and then how that turned into results. That's basically the DNA that you just wireframed. But the interesting thing here was, I didn't realise until you articulated this, a testimonial is more focused on the builder, a case study is more focused on the actual customer.

Sky Stephens:

Exactly, and that's the key, that's the kicker. I've seen a lot of builders try to produce what they're thinking is a case study, but it's just an elongated testimonial. It's even longer, and it’s all about them. Let's be honest, we all love hearing good things about ourselves, and subconsciously we're always thinking, “Yep, let's just talk about us. It's marketing for our building company, after all.” But you want to get into the psyche of someone, even your prospective clients, get them to see themselves in your current clients. That's the power of a case study. And they're actually more memorable than a testimonial. And do you know why?

Bosco Anthony:

Because it's real.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. But also, it's the story. We are literally designed to remember stories more. So, you're basically getting your current clients or even your past clients to share their stories. Everyone remembers stories. These help your sales process and sales conversations phenomenally. By the time you get into a sales conversation – and we know how powerful it is, sharing stories when you are selling like this is borderline sales 101 at this point – what you'll find happen, is the more case studies you get, the more likely the prospects in front of you will actually finish up the story for you. They’ll say, "I remember that. I loved that house. I got inspired by this part of it," or whatever. They can share your own stories with you.

Bosco Anthony:

You are right about the fact that people remember stories. I think if you look at a lot of these TV shows as well, I used to watch The Living Room on Fridays, and I used to love the transformation that would be the before and after. I think people are driven by transformation results. So going into that concept of storytelling, how do you see storytelling playing a part in case studies? Do you recommend the visual type of storytelling in today's market?

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. Case studies and storytelling are one and the same. It's a particular story. It's very structured and it's the same every single time. The secret to a good case study is mainly asking five more or less pivotal questions. Then you dig a little bit to get some more clarity, but that will actually take you on that journey, and that story. It's the same five questions for every single client.

Sky Stephens:

I remember having a session with a building company on this and saying, "It's the same five questions. Don't change them for the client in front of you. It's the same five questions. Just hear their answers." Because their answers are always going to be different. It's always going to be unique to them. Your ideal client is similar in a group, but everyone's story is unique. They're going to be just very special and unique, somehow. That's what will make it memorable, and that's what you want to dig to in those questions.

Bosco Anthony:

So Sky, the most common challenge is budgeting for photographers and videographers. I think sometimes that creates an obstacle or a challenge on its own; how do you manage that?

Sky Stephens:

We all want it to be done perfectly. If you are going to go in and get a testimonial or even better, get a case study, you would want the best photographer, the best videographer. You want the visuals, the best sound, best lighting for when you do that interview. Then that is when it can actually get really overwhelming, because organising all of that, vetting all the videographers, getting it all organised, suddenly it's a big old production to involve the clients in. It becomes overwhelming. It becomes a really big job. And more often than not, it goes into the too hard basket.

Sky Stephens:

Sometimes as well, budget does come into play, and a lot of builders will think, “You know what? I probably don't want to spend that couple of thousand dollars that it's going to take to contract that out and then get it all done. I'd rather do it next time,” and it goes in the too hard basket. It goes to next time, next time, next time, so that's a big danger.

Sky Stephens:

But one thing we are really passionate about here is progress, not perfection. This is not a podcast about you in any way. If I can do a little side note, with case studies, if you go all the way back, any of your content even, is all about progress, not perfection. If you see some of our APB videos back in the day, it was not a professional set up. We were just recording on an iPhone in the beginning. So it's all about just making sure every subsequent video is better than the previous one.

Sky Stephens:

I think builders need to have that mindset with case studies. Say you don't have a videographer and a photographer right now. You can still get a case study done. Just have an interview with your clients. You can do it over the phone. Even if you just get a written one, initially, so it's all verbal, and you get that story spelled out. That is a perfect case study story that you can share in your marketing collateral, pop it on your website, pop it on your socials. Just do better and step it up each time from there.

Sky Stephens:

The first time you get your clients on camera, maybe it is with an iPhone. The camera quality is getting better with iPhones. Just make sure the sound is a little bit better next time, and then just keep elevating it. It's probably almost better doing it that way, because spending a couple of thousand dollars for the first case study you do, it probably isn't even going to be amazing. Maybe you changed those five questions, you didn't follow the formula, you went off on a tangent and got off track.

Sky Stephens:

It takes a little bit of practice. Once you get it nailed, you can really get into a good routine and a good procedure to get that exceptional case study. You want to keep the videos short, so they don’t get boring, around 90 seconds or two minutes. Visual storytelling is especially important in this industry. When you’ve got consumers talking about their homes, prospects are thinking, "Let me see it. What are you talking about? When you say this was the best feature of your home, let's see it."

Sky Stephens:

You want to do that visual storytelling when you can overlay the photos and the videos of the clients’ journey as well, and what their lifestyle looks like now; that is where the impact is just insane.

Bosco Anthony:

It's interesting because there's a lot of powerful storytelling in a photograph too. I find myself scrolling through transformations, even on Instagram or some of the social apps, thinking, "Wow, this is a transformation from before and after." A photograph can tell a million stories as well.

Bosco Anthony:

But on that tangent about storytelling, can you give us an example of a member who comes to mind who’s done a great job at creating and collecting case studies that was so memorable that you remember it today?

Sky Stephens:

I think what's amazing is, even in our members group, they get to share them with each other as well, so I've seen quite a few. But in terms of consistency, a good example is Tye Alroe. We've had him on the podcast here in one of the earlier episodes. He's done some amazing visual storytelling in getting people to comment on their journey with Alroe Constructions. That's one based in Australia.

Sky Stephens:

We've got a new home builder based in Canada, building spectacular homes; they’re honestly gorgeous. The ability to use visual storytelling of people's journeys with them is really cool to watch. I remember watching a couple of their case studies, that's Haven Builders in Canada. Another member is Trevor Salter, who was on the podcast earlier on as well, quite a few episodes ago. He's based in New Zealand. He and his team have moved into professionally produced videos to use visual storytelling to share the journey of building really big custom design and build homes.

Bosco Anthony:

It's interesting you mentioned Tye Alroe and Travis Salter as well, because I've had the pleasure of interviewing both of them. What's really interesting is they're at different parts of that journey. They've gone through that first time being a builder, making all those common mistakes. They're in a different stage now in their career, where they've invested in their team, they've invested in their business, and the case studies keep getting better. I see Tye's comments and visuals on LinkedIn and on his website, and I look at Trevor's work as well. It really goes back to what you just said, which is they started off with humble roots, and as their brands have grown, they've now invested into that visual storytelling over time. It’s a really impressive feat, but they all started somewhere.

Sky Stephens:

Well, exactly. What's really interesting as well is both of those have actually done case studies for us at APB. It's always an awesome opportunity to say, "Okay, let's walk you through the case study formula. You know exactly what you ask your clients. We're going to ask you the same ones, and we're going to pop it together in a story." It always involves a little bit of training as well at the same time, but it's phenomenal. Even if you compare both of APB’s stories: we've got Tye's story, we've got Trevor's story and we asked them the same questions. When you watch the videos, you’ll see they follow exactly the same formula, but they are so unique to each of those guys. It's incredible, right?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. It's interesting you say that, because when I was interviewing them both, I actually asked them similar questions, but they both had different answers.

Sky Stephens:

They are both obviously professional builders, so it's APB's market, but they're both so unique. You can see now when a builder starts interviewing their clients as a group, they are similar, because they're their target market, but the stories are going to be unique and memorable.

Bosco Anthony:

We've covered what goes into a key case study; we've covered the importance of it. Now let's talk about how you leverage and maximise the use of a case study. Let's just say we've had a builder now who’s invested the time and they've got some wonderful case studies; where do you see them dropping that? Where do they use it?

Sky Stephens:

That's the key word, where do you use it? Because there's nothing more devastating than seeing a lot of time, effort and money go into building an asset like this, and it just getting thrown up on Facebook and getting buried in the feed. Perhaps it just gets put on Instagram, then it gets buried. Worse, I've seen them just not get used anywhere and just get put on the website. The key is to actually use it. In this day and age, you can't get eyeballs on anything for free, so you have to put money behind it to make the most of it.

Sky Stephens:

So, if you do put it on socials as a post, sure that's cool, but the organic reach is less than a percent at this point, isn't it? 

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah.

Sky Stephens:

So, you need to put some money behind it to get people to see it, whether that's in a Facebook ad, a YouTube ad; obviously, Facebook ads will include Instagram ads as well.

Sky Stephens:

You want to be able to actually send traffic to that case study from your database. Because if you've been doing your marketing and advertising right, you are building up a database of your own of all these different email addresses, some with phone numbers that you've had sales opportunities with past or present. You want to be able to send it to those eyeballs to watch; that helps you in your sales process.

Sky Stephens:

So, you would be utilising that case study in email campaigns, and you should use it in two different ways. One would be linking to that case study so they can go to your YouTube channel and actually watch that video. The other would be linking it to a page on your website where it's got the video. It will have some details about the project; there'll be a project gallery there; it shares the brief. I love pages like this when they’re done well. You can host these case studies on your website as past projects.

Sky Stephens:

You can talk about: What was the project brief? How big was the land? What was the scope? What was the area of the home? You don't need to give away actual costings, but you can say that these are your clients, these were the non-negotiables that they were looking for. Here's a video of their experience, and here's the project gallery. People are nosy, yes. But people also are trying to look for, “Is that what I want? I have a similar brief; how did they achieve that?” So that's a really good way that it can properly be utilised as well.

Sky Stephens:

If you get it on video, you should also get it transcribed, so now you've got a written one. You should also put that in emails as well for people to read. Put that on a separate page for people to read.

Sky Stephens:

Pop that in your proposals and all of your sales presentations as well. And have them as a bulleted list ready for your sales people, so that they are trained to remember those stories, so they can pluck them out at the right time in a sales conversation. They can say, "You know what, Bosco, you remind me so much of these clients, because they came with exactly the same brief. It was a different location. The block was slightly bigger, and it was facing this way, but he was looking for X, Y, and Z. It took a little bit and we ended up doing this, that and that. And we achieved that." And you're able to utilise this proof in a way that's so much more real because you are retelling a story.

Bosco Anthony:

It's funny. You mentioned something really important too, and I don't know if all builders realise this, but just having an organic presence in social media isn't enough today. I think the statistic is one to two percent of your following actually sees what your post organically. It's a scary statistic.

Sky Stephens:

I think one to two percent is generous these days, isn't it?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. A lot of the builders I've interviewed through this podcast have actually come to know about APB from quality content that came through an ad or video that they've seen on Facebook. It’s something they would normally not have seen, if they hadn't had seen that ad. It's such an important insight about the importance of amplifying your case studies as well.

Sky Stephens:

Beautiful word, amplifying, because ads aren't always like, "Buy my stuff, build a home with me, design and build. Best builder in Brisbane," or whatever. Ads are literally just amplifying content. “I've put money behind this so you can see it.” You want content rich adverts as well. We've done an episode on this. This is content marketing, and this is another form of content that you can use in your marketing, because it's still educational. It's storytelling; it's a bit of proof.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk about trends because I think advertising would fall into one of those trends. What do you feel are some of the trends when it comes to professional home builders today? When it comes to case studies? Do you feel that they're upping their game a little bit? Do you feel like you're seeing different types of visuals, like drone videography? What do you see as the future?

Sky Stephens:

Definitely; I think the standard of video is getting higher and higher. We're just getting some really exceptional videographers and editors. Even the editing is getting to a new standard. Some trends I have noticed are the same with everything we do, when we master something. There was a joke that one company said ages ago: "It worked so well, we stopped doing it." You get complacent with some really good results, and you keep thinking, “How can we do better? How can we do better?” What's funny is you make all those small little changes, and after a year, when you look back you realise that you're doing something totally different to what you were doing before.

Sky Stephens:

A trend I have seen while working with a lot of builders is that once they get this case study format and formula pumping and thriving, they're getting some exceptional videos. What can happen if you are not disciplined to stay on track and remember the why of this formula is that you can slowly but surely take a few more steps to the left, to the right, a different direction, and it turns into a testimonial. It turns into a video all about your fixtures and fittings, which, again, are fine, but you can't kid yourself that these are case studies, because they're not following that format anymore. It quite frankly just has a different impact.

Sky Stephens:

It's probably not the answer that you were looking for in terms of trends, but it's definitely a mistake I've seen. If you're going for a case study, there's a particular way we do it. It is storytelling. Content is the most important in terms of the story itself and the words. Sometimes you can get too interested in all the graphics, all the edits; you can have things spinning in from the left hand side, and it can give you a bit of motion sickness, and you're just here to see if it worked for that prospect or not, or that client or not.

Bosco Anthony:

You talk about having a system and you talked about following a process to collect storytelling. I'm assuming like all of the episodes we've recorded, there's always resources in the show notes. So my final question here is, is how does APB empower builders to become better storytellers in the market today? Do you have a blueprint? Where do they go to get this information?

Sky Stephens:

Totally. All of our APB members have access to our training portal that essentially can give them all different step-by-step trainings on a particular module. We do have one for creating a successful case study that actually works. It is that blueprint; it's the five pillar questions to work through. It includes the follow-up questions, so you can dig a little bit deeper. Some do's and don'ts and tips. We give that away in such detail to give our members the confidence to actually get the answer that they're looking for.

Sky Stephens:

But what I will say, in terms of really good storytelling, because we've mentioned it to all of our members in this course, and I think we've mentioned it even on this podcast before, there is a phenomenal book that I think everyone should read. It's so relevant in any form of marketing, not just a case study, but because case studies are stories, it just goes hand in hand perfectly. It's Donald Miller's book and it's Building a Story Brand. He walks you through the five-step formula for any good story.

Sky Stephens:

You can watch any movie from this point and just know how it ends, because you know the formula. Any good story follows a formula, and that's the kicker as well; it works because of the formula. So trying to be unique and different and reinventing the wheel is how you get a movie flop in the box office. So, follow the formula and just keep winning every single time. This honestly is actually what we talked about in the beginning: testimonials are about you, case studies are about them. That's where that profound realisation came from in that book. It's a customer's journey that you are trying to tell.

Sky Stephens:

It's actually their story. You as the building company owner and the builder of their dream home, to get their win, you were quite simply the guide. You were not the hero of the story. In a good movie, you've got a lead character who always has a helpful little guide, and the guide is the one who helped them win the day, in most cases. But the hero gets all the glory. That's what you want to do with the case studies. The customer has all the glory. You as the building company owner just helped them get there. You're okay with that because you want to celebrate them so you can get more prospects just like them. So that's a big tip, I would say it's a really great book: Building a Story Brand, by Donald Miller.

Bosco Anthony:

Being the Robin to the Batman, as they say.

Sky Stephens:

That's the one. That was the example I needed.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, Sky, I came into this interview trying to understand the elements of the case study and how to maximise it. But I walk out of here realising what you're really doing is inspiring builders to become their own media hub. Regardless of whether they're outsourcing the videographer or having an in-house videographer, photographer, or becoming a visual storyteller, we're really changing the narrative and saying, in order for you to tell great stories, you have to share that, and become your own media hub, internally, as well.

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. Everyone needs to know how this works. You can outsource it all the time. You can outsource anything in your building company. But really you want everyone inside your building company to know what the formula is, so you know you're hitting it on the head each and every time, like you say.

Bosco Anthony:

All right, I'm going to throw a curve ball question. It's my favourite question, because usually it really surprises guests, but in your case, I think you're going to answer it very smoothly. So here's my curve ball question. You've been on camera a lot in the last few years; I've seen you on media interviews. You've gained a lot of confidence over time, building all of these things as well. What's the best camera tip for someone, a customer, who's nervous or wants to be on camera to give a case study or testimonial or something like that? What advice do you have for them?

Sky Stephens:

Literally, forget the camera is there. They don't need to be looking into the camera to be giving that first case study, especially if someone is super nervous. Just make sure if they're standing in front of the camera, there's a camera behind them, but you are there asking the questions. Stand right next to it and just say, "Hey, just talk to me. We're just having a chat. There's no pressure here. I genuinely just want to hear about your experience.” Just go out of your way to make them feel as comfortable as possible. If you've got them to the point of getting a case study, they've had such an exceptional experience with you to date that they should feel much more comfortable just chatting to you and sharing their own story.

Bosco Anthony:

Any final words of wisdom, Sky?

Sky Stephens:

I would just say that probably one of the most underrated parts of any marketing campaign is a really good case study, using the art of storytelling. So try it, do it, nail it, do it well, just start improving each time, and you'll be amazed at how many of your prospects will repeat those stories back to you, when they make inquiries and when they're going through the sales process. They will know them, because they will remember them, because they're stories. Just do one right now.

Bosco Anthony:

Memorable storytelling, that's it. Thank you so much for your time today, Sky.

Sky Stephens:

No worries. Thank you, Bosco.