Episode 36: The Benefits Of Joining A Builders Network With Duane Johns

In episode 36 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, we’re joined by Duane Johns, Regional Partner with Alair Homes and Co-host of the Builder Nuggets podcast. Throughout this episode, we learn how Duane got into the construction industry, and the barriers he had to overcome in his career. 

During this episode, Duane uncovers the barriers he’s had to overcome in his career, his role at Alair Homes, and how he’s transformed his building company into what it’s become today.

Duane also outlines some of the key benefits of being part of the Alair Homes network, as well as the relationship he’s developed with APB.

Throughout episode 36, Duane also goes over what he loves about what he does, where he sees Alair Homes in the future, and what success looks like to him now and in the future.

Listen to the full episode to discover the benefits of joining a builders network.

Duane Johns - Alair Homes and Builder Nuggets Podcast

Duane Johns entered the construction industry working on oceanfront estates in The Hamptons on Long Island, New York. In 1996 he moved to Charlotte, North Carolina. In 1997 he started a general contracting business with Roger Ketchum and the two achieved success right away, winning industry awards and earning rave reviews from clients. That relationship continues today. Duane is very active with industry trade organisations and is a strong advocate for professionalism in the construction industry. His passion is providing an outstanding experience for each and every client.

Connect with Duane

Timeline

1:11 About Duane, Builder Nuggets Podcast and Alair Homes.

4:36 How Duane got into the construction industry.

6:10 What it was like starting out in business for Duane.

7:53 The barriers that Duane has overcome in his career. 

9:20 Duane’s role at Alair Homes.

11:24 What is Builder Nuggets Podcast?

14:34 How Duane transformed his building company.

19:11 The benefits of being part of the Alair Homes Network.

21:35 Duane’s relationship with APB.

23:29 What Duane loves about what he does.

25:24 The future for Duane and Alair Homes.

27:07 The blindspots Duane sees in the industry.

29:34 Where Duane sees the industry involving to.

31:19 What success looks like now and in the future for Duane.

32:35 Duane's advice for his younger self and other builders.

Links, Resources & More

Alair Homes

Builder Nuggets Podcast

APB Website

APB on Instagram

APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

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Bosco Anthony: 

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB), for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing. We have another great episode from the Professional Builders Secrets podcast. I'm joined today by Duane Johns, Regional Partner with Alair Homes and Co-host of the Builder Nuggets podcast. Duane, thanks for being here today.

Duane Johns:

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you guys a bit.

Bosco Anthony: 

Well, one podcast host interviewing another co-host – I guess this is kind of cool. Tell us a little bit about you, Alair Homes and the Builder Nuggets podcast as well.

Duane Johns:

All right. I'll shorten the version as much as I can. I am a builder, remodeller, husband, father and chief hat wearer. I’ve been involved in the industry all my life. I'm 53 years old. So, for 30 plus years I have been doing it in some form or fashion. I have a similar story to a lot of builders, I guess. I started out as that guy on the job sites who was stacking lumber, and I was really paying attention to what those around me were doing and then learnt some skills and did some carpentry. I did some painting, and said, “Hey, why don't I just go out and start my own business?” I became a subcontractor working for a few other really talented custom home builders in the Hamptons on eastern Long Island, east of New York, working on some gorgeous ocean front estates.

Duane Johns:

I was exposed to high-end custom building and developed a passion for that. It was really a passion around what it took to build these homes and remodel these homes and all the different characters and individuals involved. So, I had an appreciation for all aspects of the business. I moved to Charlotte, North Carolina in the mid-1990s and started my own contracting business here with my current business partner, Roger Ketchum. We still continue with that relationship today. 

Duane Johns:

I was one of those folks who – and anybody who's heard my podcast will have heard me say it – always thinks there's a better way, a better way, there has to be a better way to do stuff. That was me as I was growing the business. I was very hands on in the beginning, then I started to bring some folks on, growing the team and then I realised, “Hey, I need systems. I need to stop doing a lot of the stuff that I'm doing.”

Duane Johns:

I think that was transformational for me, because I got into that growth mindset, started to collaborate with other folks in the industry, got exposed to a group of folks from Alair Homes around 2016, I believe that was. I joined that team, and then because of some of the things that had transpired and where I was able to get my business, I got to a point where I fortunately had the freedom to do a few other things. I actually started doing some consulting and started a podcast last year, the Builder Nuggets podcast. That's kind of the long story. Here I am, and I just enjoy doing stuff like this, collaborating with folks in the industry and sharing what's worked and what hasn't worked.

Duane Johns:

My big thing is that I want to help folks because there's a lot of folks that put 25 or 30 plus years into this industry trying figure everything out on their own. If there's one message I'd like to get through, it's that there's a lot of people who have done this. So just take some time and get with some people who are willing to share.

Bosco Anthony:

Now you're part of the Alair Group in Charlotte, in Carolina, right? 

Duane Johns:

I am. I actually own an office, a general contracting, custom home building, remodelling company in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is part of the Alair Homes network. And I'm also a Regional Partner for Alair Homes. In that role, what I do is help to recruit, go out and find other builders and remodellers throughout the Carolinas who might be interested in what we're doing and maybe joining the network of builders and remodellers we have all across North America. Then I act in a support role, almost in a consulting or coaching capacity to support their ongoing operations and just growing a really cohesive team here in the Carolinas.

Bosco Anthony:

We'll get to the podcast shortly, but I want to know what prompted you to pick this industry and feel like you're actually living your purpose.

Duane Johns:

I think it was like I said, going way back. Being on those job sites and seeing some remarkable stuff being built and everything that went into it. I was fascinated by all of it. Whether it was the roofing or trim work, custom mill work, cabinetry, plaster work, all of it just fascinated me and I had to try it all. Even if I didn't like it, I would try it. I think through that, I at least gained a respect for what the other trades were doing. That was the thing I think that I took to heart most, that it was such a collaborative process. To build or remodel a home it takes a lot of different people and moving parts, and to do it right, to do it successfully without losing your mind or driving a client off a cliff, people have to be working together.

Duane Johns:

In those cases, I think at the highest level, it is just teamwork at its best. So I thrived on that; I loved that. Then I learnt new things along the way and quickly realised that I was somebody who wasn’t necessarily so passionate about the actual building of it, but I was more interested in the coordination of all of it, trying to pull all these pieces together, getting everybody moving in the same direction. That's what was really my passion and what drove me to want to stay in it, make it my life.

Bosco Anthony:

What was it like starting out, being an entrepreneur, being on your own? It'd be pretty isolating talking to a lot of the builders out there. It's an exclusive club and when you get into it, it definitely opens up an entire milestone journey for yourself. But looking back down memory lane, what was it like from the perspective of being a business owner?

Duane Johns:

I'd look back to some of the early days, maybe even when I was thinking about starting my own business. It's a rough and tumble industry. There's no doubt about it. You needed to have thick skin for sure walking onto a job site. There wasn’t a whole lot of sharing. I remember when I started, people kept a lot of stuff really close to their chests. There wasn’t a ton of collaboration. Maybe because of the tough environment and just because of the way you were brought through the ranks, it almost built a sense of, “You're not supposed to ask for help.” People would get frustrated with it. “Just get your job done. Go out and do it. When it's done, come tell me.”

Duane Johns:

I think that just builds probably a little bit of a defence mechanism. You're a little nervous, scared. So there was a lot of trial and error. There really was. I had to try stuff. I had to kind of observe what maybe some of the other really good builders and remodellers were doing and try to mimic some of that. And on occasion, you'd find somebody who’d be willing to share with you. 

Duane Johns:

For me, one of the early exposures to peer groups was through things like a local HBA group, Home Builders Association. And NARI, the National Association of the Remodeling Industry here. That was probably some of the first exposure for me on more of a peer group level. That's when I started to expand my mind a little more and realise, “Hey, you know what? There seem to be a few people who are collaborating together and then there's everybody else.”

Bosco Anthony:

So every successful business entity has roots around classical mistakes, and these mistakes are the ones that you're really proud of because they actually change and shape your career. If you're looking back, what's a classic mistake or barrier that you had to overcome that you're really proud of too? And what did you do to overcome it?

Duane Johns:

That's a bit of a tough question. There's a lot of different things that you look back on and you think, “Well, I'm not sure if I'm proud of that, but I'm glad I did it because I learnt from it.” But I think early on, one of the things was you're scrappy, and you're probably trying to land everything. I think in the beginning, there's that trying to be everything to everybody in the early days. It was a struggle and it led to not being very good at anything, frankly. There was a period of time there where you could take on everything and you're getting cash through the door, you're getting jobs done, but you just weren't doing any of them really well. Or even if you did, you'd go back. At the end of the day, you're going to make sure the quality's there.

Duane Johns:

You're going to get the job done, but you look back at it and you go, “Man, I just did it three times. I didn't make any money doing this.” So that was probably the biggest thing, realising that you have to get some real laser focus. “What is it that I want to do? What part of this am I good at?” Focus on that. Once I started to do that, that gave me some clarity and I could work on my skills at being much better at that particular thing versus trying to be everything to everybody. That’s tough, because when I started, I was a general contractor. So part of what I had to do was pull a whole bunch of stuff together. But even through that you can focus on a certain niche.

Bosco Anthony:

Tell me a little bit about your role today at Alair Homes. What does that look like on a day-to-day basis?

Duane Johns:

As an owner, I am Co-owner of the office in Charlotte, North Carolina for Alair Homes. It’s a typical remodelling, custom remodelling, home building company. But my role there has really got to the point where I'm more in a visionary role. I'm helping to guide my team. I've found that my highest and best use there is to create opportunities for that team. I've got a great group of people from project managers, my business partner, a business development role, the carpenters. They're just there rocking and rolling. They're making it their own. I enjoy being able to step back and just provide the resources they need to really grow it without me having to be in there mucking around in it every day.

Duane Johns:

Frankly, I got out of the way. That's what really helped it thrive. So, that's what I do there through that entity. But as a regional partner with Alair, where I'm spending most of my focus now is, as I said, it's a little bit more like a consultant or coaching role. I help other Alair offices across the Carolinas, and especially in North Carolina here, I help to grow their businesses. I help to support them in whatever capacity that might be needed and that can change at any given time. I could have an office that's maybe new to the Alair network and they're trying to grow their business and learn some of our systems and processes. I could have some folks who have been in here for a while and they're looking to expand into new opportunities, maybe even additional locations.

Duane Johns:

It's really a supportive role. I enjoy it because I'm working with project managers and business owners, working with trades, people all across the industry and it's tremendously collaborative. The culture is what attracted me to it. We've got a group of people here who are collaborating all the time on best practices and how to do things better, sharing ideas. That's fun to be a part of on a daily basis.

Bosco Anthony:

Give me this skinny on Builder Nuggets. What were you thinking at the time when you started the podcast and what's the podcast about?

Duane Johns:

The podcast definitely focuses more on the business side. We don't really get into products or building science or anything like that. Maybe people will say, "Where'd you come up with the name?" But that's really what it is. You always hear people talk about the nuggets. “I heard a little nugget. That's a great little nugget,” and that's what it was. We thought, “Hey, there's so much stuff out there that is being shared in different facets, whether it's from other podcasts and other business coaches, other business owners.” For me and my Co-host, Dave Young, and partially through what we're doing with Alair, being able to go out and talk to so many different builders and remodellers, there's a common theme.

Duane Johns:

I think anybody who has spent some time in this industry knows that there's a sad reality that there are a lot of builders and remodellers that put 25, 30 years or more into this industry, blood, sweat and tears. And at the end of that road, they don't have a whole lot when it comes to their business. Generally, they end up closing the doors. Some of them may think that they're going to be able to sell their business, but when they really try to get into selling it, they find out that's very difficult. 

Duane Johns:

Most times, if somebody is going to come in and think about purchasing a custom home building or remodelling company, there's not a lot to purchase outside of the physical assets of the business. Or they may want that owner or someone to stay on because they know that they need that person to bring the value.

Duane Johns:

So anyway, that was the theme behind the podcast: how do we help folks through sharing, through collaboration? How do we start maybe paving the way and giving people some of those nuggets so that they can start putting them into their business so that they can work towards having a business that really becomes valuable to them? It becomes a very rewarding business. When we think of rewarding or valuable, that's really getting to the point in your business where you've got options. You could have the option to sell your business. You could have the option to step away from your business. Maybe you only want to work in it 10 hours or four hours a week. I think when you get to that point, to us that's a really successful business, something that has created value.

Duane Johns:

Then also think of the value that has created for the team. You've got folks that may be able to step into a position of ownership. There's a lot of things that have to go into putting together a business that functions like that. So, that's really the premise of the podcast. We have other builders, remodellers and we have other business coaches. We have folks like you who come on. We've had some folks outside the industry. It's just collaboration at the highest level to bring those fundamental ideas to the table. That's the other thing that we found too, is that it’s important to go outside the industry. It really doesn't matter what industry you're in. A lot of these fundamental things are similar from business to business, industry to industry.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk a little bit about business growth. Obviously, Alair Homes in Charlotte has gone through that transformation. You've gone through that transformation as well. How did you transform that business? And what does it look like today in comparison to when you first got started?

Duane Johns:

Some of the transformation maybe goes all the way back to 1997 when my business partner and I started the business. It was very typical of a small business, especially in construction. It was really Roger and me, hands on. We were the business. We were physically doing the work, whether it was framing, trim work, hanging cabinets, whatever it could be. Then as we started to get more projects coming in, we realised that we would need more resources. I gravitated a little bit more to the business side of things. So I became the person who was moving more into the sales role. With that came more growth, and with that came the realisation that, “Wow, we need help.”

Duane Johns:

So that's when we started bringing on teammates, which started to bring in a whole new host of challenges around HR issues and hiring and building teams. I would say by the time we got to 2007 or 2008, we had a good team going. Of course the great recession hit here, and we survived it. We scaled down like a lot of companies did. We hunkered down, we did survive, we got through it and came out of the other side with a little bit more of a design build philosophy around how we wanted to approach building and remodelling. The thing that we were realising was that we were starting to put more and more value on our time. We were realising that we're trying to deliver a very high level product and service to the client.

Duane Johns:

We want the client to see the most value in it, so we have to position ourselves as professionals at the highest level. What can we do better than the competition so that the client sees value in it and that, frankly, we're being rewarded for it? So that just led to more and more growth internally around how we operate, realising that we need to have a rock solid set of systems and processes, all that sort of stuff that you hear about. We went through some more growth, and I would say it was about 2015 or 2016 when I was approached by Alair. They had found me on online. I think it was through LinkedIn and they had liked the work that we were doing. They said, “Hey, we're looking to expand into the Carolinas. We like what you're doing,” so we had some conversations.

Duane Johns:

At first, I said, "No, I don't think I want to be a part of something larger than me, this network of builders." It was a franchise; that sounded weird to me. But after I had a few more conversations and got to know the people who made up the network, these other builders, remodellers who were very similar to myself, very successful folks and all facets; folks that were large, folks that were small, but they all had a common goal. They realised that the industry was ripe for some change when it came to just how things are being delivered, especially behind the scenes, and they had the idea of collaborating on those things that probably gave us the most headaches. 

Duane Johns:

As builders, remodellers and small business people, those were things like the finances, the accounting, the branding, the marketing, training, software, all the systems and processes. We know we all need it, but man, we don't have a lot of ways of getting it or putting it together, or we cobble it together.

Duane Johns:

So to stumble across something that was providing a bit of a solution for that, and the fact that there were so many different builders and remodellers looking to share those resources – in a sense, collaborate to make them better. It aligned with where I was in my phase of trying to grow the business. It allowed us – me and my business partner, Roger – to get the hell out of the way. That's where we were. We were at a point where we were probably just mucking things up because we were trying everything. We were trying all the different types of software and systems: “Plug this in and let's add one of these,” and, “I heard this in a seminar. I'll try that.” It was just constant mucking around.

Duane Johns:

I think what we were doing was probably confusing our team to a certain degree. When we landed on this, we found something that we really liked. It was a proven set of systems. We said, “Hey, you know what? Let's take this. Let's use it to its best ability. Let's train our people to use it,” and that allowed us to step away, to move into some different roles. I think that was the point where our team really had the freedom to grow and as I said, it’s given me the opportunity to do some other things here several years later.

Bosco Anthony:

Is there a big difference between a franchise and a network? You mentioned that NARI’s got such a big network, and how does it benefit a business owner getting into it as well?

Duane Johns:

I think it's in a way what we call the ‘accidental franchise’ with Alair. It wasn't really intended to be a franchise from the start. It’s just where they landed and that was a good model for it. But the premise behind it was that if you think about it, there hasn't really been consolidation, if any, in this industry. You look across all the other industries, and you see there's all sorts of consolidation and shared resources. But there's really been none in residential construction. So really, the premise was, “Hey, what if we settled on a pretty solid, proven business model, find those pain points, those things behind the scenes that your business needs to run on, the systems, the rails, so to speak? And what if we just kind of combine resources to grow those, refine those, and then share them?”

Duane Johns:

That was true scalability. The fact that not every individual office has to go through the effort of trying to put all of these pieces in place and tie things together. They can work off this set of systems that as I said, is proven, is working, but yet they can still have input into how these systems are running and how they can be refined and changed. 

Duane Johns:

What we've found is that the vast majority of the business owners, the builders and remodellers, are really passionate about a couple of things. One is the relationships that they build with their clients and their trades and their teams, and then the other is building stuff. Not many really get excited about the marketing and the accounting or training and systems and processes. So, we felt that if we could take that stuff in a sense off their plate, that would give them a solution for it.

Duane Johns:

That's the thing I think that a lot of folks find appealing. It's not necessarily for everybody. It might not be the thing that is a perfect fit for every business. Certainly with Alair we're not looking for every business. But I think it's for people who are out there looking for the right solution, looking to grow and scale their businesses. It's definitely a viable option as with many other options. It's one of those things where you've got to dive in there, you've got to do your research and see what's available. But it’s a pretty scalable system, and very risk averse too. What the nice thing about it is we try to run lean and mean. We try to say that there are ways that you can set up your business so that you don't have to have a ton of exposure to risk and then operate in an efficient and profitable manner.

Bosco Anthony:

How did you hear about the good folks of APB?

Duane Johns:

I have seen them for years in the industry and have followed some of the stuff that you guys do. I think it was Eric Cofield here in the US; he and I have had some conversations. I said, “Hey, that's what we do through the podcast.” There are ways, as I said, that we like to collaborate. We love to get out information and options. I think that's what's important for everybody in this industry is to be able to do as you guys are doing here with this podcast. We aim to get more information out to people in the industry. So many people have done things: they've fallen down, they've skinned their knees, they've got up, they've figured it out. We want to share that information. And then maybe that same person found a great solution.

Duane Johns:

Maybe there's a provider out there of consulting, coaching, a different platform, whatever that might be. I think the more people can have access to that and hear about those things, the better. There are opportunities for everybody out there. If you look across the globe right now, there's no shortage of demand for construction services. It's everywhere. But what we have is a lack of labour coming in. We have of a lot of people struggling to get all the parts and pieces they need in place to grow their businesses. So I think as an industry, we owe it to ourselves to do everything we can to help one another.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah, absolutely. It's great to see so many different folks from all walks of life going through similar struggles, similar victories in different parts of the world. That's the truly inspiring part about doing what I do. You definitely have been doing this for a while and you talk a little bit about not wanting to muck things up and stepping aside as well. What do you love today about your role that really gets you up in the morning, gets you excited to come to work as well? What's the best part of your day-to-day?

Duane Johns:

I think the best part of my day comes from some of the things that I've been doing and obviously some other folks I've collaborated with here over the last few years, some guests I've had on the podcast, some folks I've met through different channels. Sometimes you have those moments where you get hit up the side of the head with the two by four industry. For me, it was about a year or so ago, maybe two years ago when I really started to realise that the thing that was getting me excited, the thing I was passionate about, the thing that I truly loved doing was building and creating opportunities for other people, and I've heard that over and over again, but at the time I heard it I realised, “Oh, that's another catchphrase.”

Duane Johns:

But that's the thing for me that there was a light bulb moment when I realised that's it, that's the thing. I think across all businesses, as business owners, that's really where we have to put a ton of focus. We have to think about that. If we do want that business that I think we all dream of – and that could be different for everybody – if you're ever going to get to that point, you have to realise that that's probably your highest and best use. It’s to say, "How can I create opportunities for other people?" Ultimately, when you think about it, that means you're growing a healthy business. 

Duane Johns:

You've got the things in place that you need, whether it's the resources, the outside help, systems, processes, but you've got something that's running well enough that you can then lead or mentor people and create new opportunities for them. So, for me, that's it each and every day, that's the part that gets me excited.

Bosco Anthony:

What are you focusing on moving forward? Obviously, you’ve hit a stage now where you own the business, but what can we look forward to when it comes to Alair in Charlotte? And what does the company look like today as far as its projects? Are you running multiple projects at the same time? Is it mostly remodelling as well?

Duane Johns:

We do a mix of custom homes and large renovations. We’ve been growing year on year and then we’re seeing some continued growth going here. There's definitely some high demand in the Charlotte market. We actually have some growth on our horizon when it comes to locations. As I said, we've got opportunities coming up where we have some folks on the team who have an interest in opening their own location, maybe an office that works in tandem in a different market. We see opportunities in a few other markets in and around the Carolinas that we would like to together as a team say, “Hey, you have an interest. You've been a project manager for several years. You've got an interest in maybe becoming an owner. There could be some partnership opportunities for folks within my existing company in Charlotte.”

Duane Johns:

So, that's what's on our horizon. We're already mapping those things out and what that's going to look like. I see more of that across our network of builders here in North Carolina and South Carolina with Alair. I think, just in general, the demand does remain high in this region. I think no matter who you are as a builder or remodeller, I think that's what you probably need to be focused on: there's a lot of opportunity out there. 

Duane Johns:

There are going to be some challenges with inflation and supply of building materials, but I think you really need to be thinking now about setting yourself up for the next few years and taking advantage of it, because there are challenges. There are challenges within the workforce with labour. But try to position those in a way where you can make them some sort of opportunity and not get hamstrung by looking at it as a challenge.

Bosco Anthony:

We're actually going through an interesting time in history right now. What do you feel are some of the struggles or blind spots that builders need to be paying attention to, especially the ones getting into the industry today?

Duane Johns:

As an old guy, a veteran of the industry, I have definitely seen this industry have its ups and downs. It's always going to happen. I have a little bit of apprehension because there's a fairly young generation of folks in this industry now who have done well for the last 10 or so years and have not seen the other side of it. Not that I feel like the other side of it's coming anytime soon. But I think there's definitely going to be some changes. We've got the interest rate issue. We actually just recorded a podcast on that not too long ago. I look back and I don't know that we've seen interest in the form it's in, in close to 40 years. But at the same point, the demand is high, and people still want the same homes. But at some point, the consumer is going to start to say, "It's too expensive."

Duane Johns:

The challenges are going to increase, especially as interest rates start to tick up a little bit more, they're really going to start to challenge us around what things cost. I think anybody out there, if you're a builder, a remodeller or a business owner listening, it's always your fault when that conversation comes up. We're going to be challenged to figure out how to provide the same things that these folks want and somehow reduce costs. So what is that? Is that going to be collaboration with design teams? Is that going to be making things smaller but better built? 

Duane Johns:

Obviously, we're going to have to start to get in some ideas of whether it's panelisation, modular building or 3D printed homes. I think there's going to be a lot of things that we have to start to look at that we didn't look at in the past, because I think the demand's going to stay there. I don't think it's going to be the demand with an open cheque book that it's been. I think the demand's going to be there, but the challenge is going to be: “How do you become even more efficient and more able to provide it at possibly at a lower price point?” 

Duane Johns:

I've had some guests on the podcast who have mentioned, and I agree, that unfortunately, I think you're going to see a continuation of probably the very high-end projects and then the low-end stuff. I think the middle type projects will probably be the first ones that will start to take a hit as things change. But as I said, I think the demand all in all is going to stay there. But we're going to be challenged with how to get the work done, for sure. How to get the work done and how to get it done more cheaply.

Bosco Anthony:

Is the residential construction industry still the final frontier or the wild west as some call it today? What's it evolving to? What are some of the trends you're seeing right now?

Duane Johns:

Another passion for me is this next generation that together we have to build. I think anyone in the industry knows it: the younger folks coming into the industry are just not there. We've got a lot of people who are exiting the industry, from business owners to trades, and they're not being replaced. So that too, as part of the challenge is this labour shortage that is not going to get better anytime soon. We have to start bringing younger folks into the industry. We have to make it our focus. The conversation around the dinner table, I think, has to change a little bit. It has to be not a bad thing to become a plumber or a carpenter or an electrician. I think it has to be elevated to a certain degree that this is a viable and somewhat even noble profession.

Duane Johns:

I think when that happens, it's going to take a little time. But I think once we start to get some more young folks into the industry and it does start to become maybe even a cool thing, I think their voices will start to change the industry. I think that's where we are; I think we're at a point where there's a lot of folks ageing out in the industry. There's some stuck in the middle. The younger ones, I don't think have enough influence in the industry just yet. There's going to need to be some radical changes. Just in the way things are built, the types of materials and how these things are built. That excites me to a certain degree. I think it's a way off, but I think that's when you're going to really start to see the change.

Duane Johns:

I think you're going to see consolidation as I mentioned before. I think you're going to start to see that a lot more, probably just out of necessity. As things start to change within the industry, you're probably going to see a lot more consolidation. So, those are the sorts of things I think I see on the horizon.

Bosco Anthony:

What does success look like for you today? And what's the future vision for you moving forward?

Duane Johns:

I think continuing more along what I'm doing. Like I said, I'm really excited about this ability to help create opportunities for others, and then helping other people create opportunities for other people. As I work with other business owners, they start to get their heads around that and realise, “Wow, you know what? I can get out of the way. I can focus on these core things and then actually take time and set up these other people in my business to do more.” I think more and more of that; that's what I see in my future. And then, being part of a group of business owners that really focuses on that growth mindset and collaboration, and we start to see some real change in the industry and just people living, having some true freedom in their businesses and lots more opportunities.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, Duane. I've got a final question for you. It's been a really insightful interview with so many different perspectives as well. You've been doing this for a while, so I'm going to take you back through an interesting version of time. This is the legacy question that I usually ask people. What advice would you give a younger version of yourself today? What advice would you give a new person getting into the industry today? And what advice would you give a veteran looking to retire?

Duane Johns:

The advice I would give my younger self is what I said it earlier in the podcast, get some focus on what you want to do as quickly as you possibly can. Stop trying things and mucking around. Get focused on something you really think you like and stay after it. 

Duane Johns:

For young people entering, I would say, get in the room with other business owners as quickly as you possibly can. Do not have any fear about asking folks for help; I think that is the single biggest thing you can do, and probably the quickest path to growth and success is if you can get in the room with lots of other successful people. So do it as fast as you can. Don't put it off. 

Duane Johns:

And then for the veterans: make hay while the sun shines, for sure. I think we've got a few more years of some pretty good growth here in this industry.

Duane Johns:

Start thinking about, especially if you're a business owner, start thinking about the things you need to put in your business to make it valuable. When I say valuable, as I said, it doesn't mean you're just going to sell it. It means that you've created some options because there's a good chance that you're probably at that point where you're frustrated with it or it's just time to get out, whatever it is. But the problem is most of what you know or most of the value of that company is probably between your ears. 

Duane Johns:

Whatever you can do to get it out of your head onto paper, into systems, somewhere so that other people can run your business, can manage your business. Do that too. Do that as quickly as you can. Someone said to me recently that you should always be in a position where you can sell your business within the next 18 months. Maybe you have no intention of ever selling your business, but if your business is running well enough to where it could be sold, you've got a hell of a business.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, I really appreciate your time. This has been really great having you on here. We'd love to see you again here in the future as well, but thanks for being here.

Duane Johns:

Yeah. Thank you as well. This was fun and I was glad to do it. I think we may even have Russ [Stephens, Co-founder of APB] on the Building Nuggets podcast coming up in the next few months. I’m looking forward to continuing to collaborate with you guys. I love what you're doing.

Bosco Anthony:

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Bosco Anthony:

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at APB can help you grow your building company, visit associationofprofessionalbuilders.com. See you next time.