Episode 54: Transparency, Systems & Future Proofing With Andrew & Marcus

In episode 54 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, we’re joined by Marcus Elliott and Andrew Siracusa, Directors of Kube Constructions. Throughout this episode, Marcus and Andrew explain how structuring a business through proper systems and transparency sets it up for success and longevity. 

 

Inside episode 54 you will discover

• Why mistakes and problem clients help shape a more effective business
• The importance of transparency with clients ensuring a smooth process
• How APB’s processes and procedures helped Kube Construction
• That future-proofing the business is key for its success and survival
• Why your competitor is not your competitor; but your ally
• And much, much more.

 

Listen to the full episode to uncover what top grade professional builders are doing to ensure their success.

 

Marcus Elliott & Andrew Siracusa - Directors of Kube Constructions

 

On a mission to continuously set a new benchmark for professional builders, Marcus and Andrew the Directors of Kube Construction know how to construct luxury homes guaranteed to impress. Their passion for their clients and their high standards of dedicated service is unlike any other making them leaders in the construction industry.

Connect with Marcus Elliott

Connect with Andrew Siracusa

 

Timeline

1:34 About Kube Constructions 

4:06 How to engage your ideal clients

7:50 The APB action plan that transformed Kube Constructions 

15:49 How to future-proof your building company 

18:34 Transforming your competitor into your ally

20:45 The #1 way to handle the skilled trades shortage

 

Links, Resources & More

Kube Constructions

APB Website

APB on Instagram

APB on Facebook

APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Marcus Elliott:

We have now got a structure that allows us to keep up with what's changing. 

Marcus Elliott:

You know what? To be successful, we've all got to pass on our experiences.

Andrew Siracusa:

It's good to have a partnership because you can rely on each other to look after the business when one's gone.

Andrew Siracusa:

We never knew how to put the ideas together and make them work.

Marcus Elliott:

Clients hate being blindsided. 

Marcus Elliott:

So when we discovered APB, it was a game changer for us. It was. 

Marcus Elliott:

I don't think you can have enough good people in your business. 

Marcus Elliott:

You know? If you're thinking about it and wondering, "Oh should I or shouldn't I?" just do it.

 

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing. We have another exciting episode from the Professional Builder Secrets podcast. Today, I'm joined by Marcus Elliott and Andrew Siracusa, Directors from Kube Constructions. Gents, thanks for being here today.

Marcus Elliott:

Good morning. Thanks for having us.

Andrew Siracusa:

Good morning. Thanks for having us.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, tell us a little bit about your roles at Kube and what do you specialise in?

Andrew Siracusa:

My role at Kube is I'm in sales and also business development, and Marcus is in construction management and also project management as well.

Bosco Anthony:

And where are you guys joining us from today?

Andrew Siracusa:

Our office in Melbourne.

Bosco Anthony:

Awesome. How did you guys start in the industry? Was this a purpose for you both or was this one of the scenarios where you accidentally stumbled upon this profession?

Marcus Elliott:

We both had different journeys. For me, yes, it was definitely by accident. I actually started off as a computer programmer, which interestingly enough, gave me some skills that are quite transferable believe it or not with the admin side of things. I basically just hated my job and then I had a mate of mine who was framing in the burbs for a buying builder who just said, "Try it for a bit, see how you go." I honestly just loved it and never stopped. And here I am 20 years later still doing it. So that's my story in a nutshell.

Bosco Anthony:

What about you, my friend? How did you get started in this?

Andrew Siracusa:

I was always in the trade as well. I was a cabinet maker by trade in the day, so I did cabinet making and then I got into developing as well and that's how I came across Marcus because I had a development in Melbourne East that linked onto Marcus and he did all the carpentry work for me there as well. And that's how we started our relationship.

Marcus Elliott:

Yep.

Bosco Anthony:

So obviously you've been there, Marcus, for 20 plus years. Most people are defined by two things: their successes, but more importantly the mistakes that they make in the industry. If you look back, what was one of those moments that was a memorable mistake that you made that you'll never forget and potentially you had changed the direction of how you grew your business?

Marcus Elliott:

When I think back, the things that always stick in my head the most are probably the ones where I misquoted things and they're the ones that keep me awake at night. I think, "Oh, how could you do that? How could you forget to put that in?" They're the ones that just seem to never leave me, I think. 

Bosco Anthony:

Do you still have those recurring dreams at night now or is it better, a lot better now?

Marcus Elliott:

Yeah, but it’s a lot better. I'm getting therapy now, so it’s not bad.

Bosco Anthony:

Maybe that should be another podcast episode, Therapy for Builders, or in some cases maybe this is therapy for builders. I'm curious to know, if you look back, a lot of builders I've talked to have really defined their values through this business and have what we call the non-negotiables. Typically that's either because you've had a really good client or you've had really bad clients. If you think about the worst client you've ever had, how do you avoid getting those these days? What are the non-negotiables and any advice for the builders listening to this episode podcast as well?

Marcus Elliott:

Good question. I mean we've had a bit of both. We've had some horrible clients and we've had some amazing clients. I think it's just one of those things that half the time when you meet people for the first time, the second time, the third time, you get a bit of a gauge on who they are and whether you're going to connect. 

Marcus Elliott:

We had one of those experiences when we had one of the worst clients I think anybody could ever have. It was an absolute nightmare, and I think it really shapes the business. That’s really because you think, "I just do not want to go through that again." You really look for the flags that show up that indicate that that could be that client again. That happens to us all the time and we say, "I can feel this client being another one of those," and we've got some strategies in place that really steer away from that.

Bosco Anthony:

What do you look for typically? Is it the alignment in values?

Marcus Elliott:

It is. It's alignment of values. It's their motivations.

Andrew Siracusa:

Expectations.

Marcus Elliott:

Yeah, expectations. There's a few things that we really look for that will give us an indication – and just their personality sometimes too. You can just get a gauge. As to building for a client, it is a bit like a marriage in a way. You've really got to connect with someone for quite a long time. Some of our best clients have become good friends after and you know what? You really do have to find that unique partnership and then sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm assuming flexibility is really important from the clients too and that you need that as well in such a changing world today, right?

Marcus Elliott:

Absolutely. Something you can work with. We're designing and building houses for so many different variables. There's someone who can actually work with you on that journey and not be so hard and fast on how they want things.

Andrew Siracusa:

And understands the value of their project as well and expectations of what things cost. Because some clients want the world and obviously they don't want to pay you the world. So it's sort of working that out with them as well what their finances are like.

Bosco Anthony:

That's such a timely topic right now because the value of goods today has changed drastically over the last few years as well. So it's not what it used to be from what I'm hearing from the builders and the frontline, people on the front lines as well, things are changing very quickly.

Marcus Elliott:

They are. They're changing daily sometimes. So yeah, making sure that those clients understand those variables and what's coming around the corner. With our communication with our clients, we try and really get on the front foot with all that sort of stuff so that if there are changes and cost increases or whatever else that's coming around the corner, it’s really good to be on the front foot early and communicating because we find that clients hate being blindsided. They hate it. So if we can avoid doing that and we’re really good on the front foot with leading the conversation early, that blow, because it is a blow when it happens to the client, is softened because it's been building for a long time.

Bosco Anthony:

What are you known for today? If someone had to review your clients today, what would they say about Kube?

Andrew Siracusa:

I think transparency's a huge thing and that’s where we set the agenda very early on in projects. For example, when we're doing a design and build, we're basically briefing their budget really early on, knowing what they want to spend on the project, what their brief is, does that marry up to what they want to spend? It’s important to be transparent early on with the client, letting them know, “Well, your budget doesn't meet your brief at the end of the day,” or vice versa, and work through that before you start designing. So by the time you get to the end point or heading to the site and building the project or going to contract, there's no real hidden costs. It's all been discussed very early in the piece. I think transparency is a huge thing.

Bosco Anthony:

So tell me a little bit about the key struggles that you encountered before you joined APB and how did that story come about? How did you guys end up finding or hearing about APB?

Marcus Elliott:

That was interesting because there's been a couple years leading up to actually signing up with APB. We've been talking about it and just never did it for whatever reason. We just thought, "Oh, no. We'll just defer and defer," and then COVID hit. Ironically, we just signed up before COVID. But the timing for us was perfect because we had issues all over the business really from a point of view of just lacking that structure. We were lacking that structure of “this is how it should be in this part of the business, this is how that part of the business should run financially.” All those little key things that we build along the way, we needed that, someone to guide us in that direction of how to be more process-driven. “When this happens you do that.” So when we discovered APB, it was a game changer for us. It was.

Bosco Anthony:

Now was it out of necessity or was it a nice to have at the time? What compelled you, I guess, to make that decision to decide, "Guys we really need to implement this quickly?"

Andrew Siracusa:

There was a necessity in the database. So I think we needed to find a system that could show us how to structure the business and grow with that structure without running in different directions.

Marcus Elliott:

We particularly needed that structure, the more jobs that we got on. For one or two jobs, we probably could have handled it in the way that we were. But when you multiply it by five or six, if you haven't got all your processes in place, things get wild. That's what we were finding, and that's why we needed help.

Andrew Siracusa:

Things were falling through the cracks because there's only so much you can remember in your head on a day-to-day basis. So we really didn't have a place to put all the data we needed and all the specs of the jobs, all the stuff like that. So we were running on the fly, and definitely when you're running on the fly, things fall through the cracks.

Bosco Anthony:

Now you talked a little bit about financial awareness, you talked a little bit about systemisation. Where did the APB membership impact you guys directly first? Where did you see the transformation and what types of values did you have to bring into the business to prompt that change?

Marcus Elliott:

Well, it took a while. I probably drove it for a long time. But financially, just doing the quotes properly, and all the education we got on putting in the overheads and the correct amount for overheads, and the difference between margin and markup. All these things were just an eye opener for us. We knew that there were things that we needed to implement, but just getting that reinforcement like, "This is how you do it," really changed everything for us.

Marcus Elliott:

But what we found amazing about it was that all the modules linked together. So there was such a synergy between all of them. It wasn't like they were independent from one another. You need all of them to make the story make sense. So from that point of view, we absolutely loved it and we were all in. We were all in.

Marcus Elliott:

And since we've been all in, it really has changed our lives more than just the business because now we're just mentally able to free up our minds. We're more present at our home with our families because we know that our systems and our business are in good shape.

Andrew Siracusa:

With the sales side of things in APB, it’s amazing. It's just changed my direction in sales and how the sales work and how to approach clients and their pain points. It's set a really good structure for me to go see clients and work out what the client wants at the end of the day and have the right questions to ask to lead them in the right direction to sign them up. Having a pipeline now and having construction slots, all these things have structured the business for us really, really well at the end of the day.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you guys are students to the modules because everything you're talking about I've covered in an episode in the past, everything from construction slots to the pipeline and everything else. But what did you learn about yourselves through this process? Obviously, if you decide to invest in learning and trying new things, you're putting your ego aside, you're putting your pride aside and deciding, "Look, I'm going to try something new." What did you learn through this entire process about yourselves and each other?

Andrew Siracusa:

I was never process-driven at all, to be honest. The truth is, I'd love to work the old-fashioned way as I’m just used to putting everything into my head, and I struggled to let go of that. But I thank Marcus that he really embedded himself into this program and into APB. He's pushed me and driven me through this process and opened up my mind saying I need to do this because it's going to benefit not only the company but me as well. 

Andrew Siracusa:

Now I can go home and have a good night’s sleep, knowing that our process is in place. So I think it made me grow as a person and opened up my mind to knowing that processes are important and following your processes and also adjusting your processes too. Not necessarily every process works for the team. You’ve got to cater the process to suit yourself as well to a certain degree and your character.

Bosco Anthony:

Of all the APB systems, processes or action plans, which one did you guys implement right away that basically was the biggest game changer that got you those results? Because there are so many different systems that you used, but which one did you find the most value if you look back that really just changed the narrative for your business?

Marcus Elliott:

I would say probably the estimating one was huge for us: how to actually work out your financials, so your overheads, your mark up, all that kind of stuff was probably the most important one. But I found some others were important too; the little obscure ones like how to be more efficient with your time as well. 

Marcus Elliott:

Those action plans, although they were really nothing to do with construction per se but were really just about management skills, were absolutely brilliant. I've really got a lot out of those and having almost like a matrix of how you organise your day and having those power hours where you really punch out a couple of good hours. My wife works in the corporate world, and that’s stuff that they all do. But we're all from trades; I'm a carpenter by trade. This is stuff that really we've never been taught. So to really get that intel, for someone who's got a trade background, it's just gold. It's stuff that you wouldn't get from anywhere else.

Bosco Anthony:

I think we affectionately call it the Netflix for builders, all the different videos and training programs that they have in the backend. What software are you guys using right now, and when it comes to automation, what are some of the systems that you're using today? You talked a little bit about pipeline. I'm curious, where do you put your energy to get those leads in the pipeline? What processes do you put into play today?

Marcus Elliott:

The software we use for our construction is Buildertrend, and that's another game changer. That's huge for us. That allows everybody on the field to see exactly what they need to see. The documents are all in the folders they need, even when they’re on the road. And for us in the office, it's just great. We can track the jobs to within an inch of their lives, including the purchase orders and the finances of the job. And we do a full audit once we've finished the job to ask, “How did we go? Did we win? Did we lose? Where did we lose? Why did we lose?” You can really dissect each job. So that's been great from that point of view.

Andrew Siracusa:

Also, with Buildertrend that allows the client to come into a part of the mix. The client gets a link to Buildertrend as well when the job starts, so they can see the job evolve as well through the Gantt Chart and communication and plan changes and your fixtures and fittings. So there's a lot through the portal that the client gets benefits from as well. The communication level through the portal with the client is really, really good.

Marcus Elliott:

We use AdWords a lot. So that's where we generate a lot of our work from. And then we have a CRM system behind that that really works for our leads. So we have lead …, what are they called? Lead ...

Bosco Anthony:

Like a lead magnet.

Marcus Elliott:

Lead magnet.

Andrew Siracusa:

Lead magnet. There you go.

Marcus Elliott:

Our lead magnet helps us find new work. In conjunction with architects, now I've got a real strategy to target architects. All these things start coming together, then the pipeline starts filling and that's where we are now, where we've got work banked up probably for two years.

Bosco Anthony:

I was always impressed as well. I went on your website and looked at the lead magnet but I was really impressed with the branding. It translated into each page of the website, the colour tonalities, the aesthetics, the images, everything was really consistent up to your uniforms as well. It was an end-to-end seamless branding journey from start to finish. I actually spent some time reviewing that and I was thinking, "Oh! This is pretty cool. It's really cool to see the consistency show up across the different parts of the digital narrative." How are you future-proofing your business now with all the changes happening in the world and the uncertainties as well? How do you plan for the future?

Marcus Elliott:

We’re obviously adjusting our pricing; we're pricing jobs for the new prices. That caught us out a little bit where we had contracts signed but it was moving so fast that we couldn’t pass it on to the client because we’d already signed the contract. So once those jobs have filtered through, we’re now adjusting obviously to the new pricing. But not only that, in these times of uncertainty about everything, we're finding that we're having to PC [prime cost] a few more things just to have a bit more certainty that we've got that support from the client, as we don't know where this could land because things are changing so quickly. So that's probably been one way that we've future-proofed ourselves.

Andrew Siracusa:

Yeah, PCs and PSs [provisional sums] but also for strategy where the client is not only given a price for the PC or the PS, it's about getting it quoted properly and then literally being transparent with them and showing them a quote. For example, we're going to PS or PC the trusses because they are moving in price. That's being transparent with them as well so they feel comfortable that it is quoted properly and it is a PC that's legit at the end of the day.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like the word transparency keeps coming up in a lot of your responses as well, which seems to be a really big part of your journey, from what I can read here. Do you feel like you've hit the point now where you're spending time on the business as opposed to in the business for you Marcus? Obviously, Andrew, you've got a whole different world as well, but when it comes to the processes, do you feel like it's a lot easier to manage the business today?

Marcus Elliott:

There's no doubt it is. Now there’s even a meeting module actually, about what sort of meetings to have, in APB. Even that helps because we're working on the business with everybody. Everybody's got their own intel on what their experience is like. Our foreman comes in daily and says, “I need this and that,” and that's great because his role is crucial, so we can actually then support him and change things to suit what he's needing. So we're constantly evolving. It's a moving target. There's always things that pop up but we've now got a structure that allows us to keep up with what's changing and from that point of view it's been amazing.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk a little bit about the perception around builders as well because obviously back in the day builders used to live in what they call an isolating world. If you haven't been to an APB event, you're probably isolated because the APB events are known to bring builders together to talk about their shared experiences. I've got a two-pronged question here. One is how do you feel you compare or stack up against the builders in your area? And more importantly, what do you think the other builders are saying about your building company today?

Andrew Siracusa:

It's a hard question to answer what they're saying about us. I’m not sure what they're really saying about us, but I think that if I had to guess, I'd say, "Okay, we specialise in a certain field of construction, where we do a lot of extension renovations." We've got someone in the area that does similar work to us, which is Sherbrooke Homes, but I don't see them as a competitor. I see them as inspiration because they've been around a lot longer than we have, probably 30 years longer than we have. At the start, we had a look at what they're doing and what their business model is. I know they're with APB as well, so we met them at an APB dinner. I think people think we're doing great things in industry.

Marcus Elliott:

Yeah, it's a good question actually because I think that we've all got such different experiences. It's not only in construction but in life. We've all had different journeys along the way and there is the old school model that, “I'm a builder; I'm not going to share my experiences. You need to learn that yourself. I'm not going to pass that down. Why would I pass it on to you? You're a competitor.”

Marcus Elliott:

But I think now we've evolved to the point where we understand that to be successful, we've all got to pass on our experiences, because I view the world differently to Andrew. Andrew views the world differently to you. We all have different angles on how we tackle one isolated problem. We'll have three different approaches. It’s important to get all those approaches heard and have a network of builders that you can lean on say, "Well how would you tackle that?" You have such a better way of getting to the outcome in a much more effective way because you've got input from everybody. I think moving forward, it's a great way to do it because it just makes sense, right?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah, it's a shared perspective so there's a strength in numbers with that too, right? Before I get into the advice section, because obviously you’ve earnt the right to give advice now because you've been in the industry for that long as well. I'm just curious, what are your thoughts around the shortage of skilled trade workers right now in Australia? What are you guys trying to do to sustain this business long-term as well? Do you guys feel the shortages where you're at and how do you address this?

Marcus Elliott:

We do. We definitely do. I've even gone back on the tools a couple of days a week just to help out at the moment.

Bosco Anthony:

Wow!

Marcus Elliott:

Yeah, we do. We've got so much work on, which I know is a great thing, don't get me wrong, but actually getting through it all has been a challenge. So, to future-proof, what we do is create a culture where we don't want people to leave. So far, I think it's pretty good because the boys tend to really enjoy where they work. We give them enough support to feel like they've got our backing and then let them go. So that's one thing that we do.

Marcus Elliott:

When we’re looking for people, I think it's important to find good people. We find people through schools, through free apprenticeship programs, trying to just find as many good people as we can, really. I don't think you can have enough good people in the business. So if we find someone who we think has got a good personality, a good character and good values that align with us, we will generally find a role for them and just keep them here.

Andrew Siracusa:

So, instill a good culture in the company where people do talk about your industry and they’ll want to come and work for you. That's probably a great thing if you can build that culture and when people start talking about it, they'll say, "We want to go work for these guys."

Bosco Anthony:

When you talk about balance, both of you said that you guys now have the ability to leave work at work and go home to your lives. What does balance look like and what do you guys do when you're not having fun at work?

Marcus Elliott:

I play a lot of golf. I've just come back from golf, actually. So that's my release – golf. I have a young family, so I just spend time with the kids and have the ability just to be in the moment and be present. That's huge. You can be there with the kids but still have your mind on a hundred things to do with the business. But just to be able to disconnect from that and be in the moment, I think is probably one of the biggest things we've got out of APB, to be honest. That's been just for our families and our own sanity, and that's been a complete game changer, hasn't it?

Andrew Siracusa:

Yeah. You need to have your breaks and Marcus had to go for a break last week for a couple of days, which refreshed him. He doesn't know about this yet, but in two weeks, I'm going away to Sydney for two days. So just a bit of a break here and there breaks it up a little bit. Having a partner means at the end of the day, when he goes away, I really don't want to bother him because he's having a rest. It's good to have a partnership because you can rely on each other to look out for the business when one's gone.

Marcus Elliott:

That's true. Yeah, the ability to have everything process-driven allows us to go away because when we go we know that everybody is aware of what they're supposed to be doing so we can go away and know that when we come back the joint's not going to be a rubble.

Andrew Siracusa:

But when you go away too, to be honest with you, you can’t really shut down anyway; you're working on phone calls. Like yesterday I was at home, I was crook [sick] yesterday and even being at home, I think I was on the phone about 20, 25 times throughout the day. So it's not like you have that chance to put your head down and have a sleep. As soon as I’d doze off the phone would go off. It never shuts down completely. But yeah, it does help to have a partner and have the structures in place.

Bosco Anthony:

It's funny, I had a builder the other day I was interviewing and the phone just kept ringing. It was one of those things where it doesn't turn off, right? What advice would you give other builders considering joining the APB either membership or mentoring program and what do they need to do to become successful? Looking back at your journey as well, what are some of those attributes that really are important today for them?

Marcus Elliott:

Well, one piece of advice I would give is just do it. If you're thinking about it and wondering, "Oh, should I or shouldn't I?" just do it. It's only a small investment from an ownership point of view, but the value you get back, it's honestly changed our business upside down really. I cannot express how much it has changed our business. So just do it would be the first thing. We were lucky in COVID times where we had some time to actually just jump into it, which we did. But I think if I was to do it again and I didn't have that time, I would just be consistent and just chip away at it. I think just to dedicate some time, whether it'd be one hour or two hours a week, but just block out some time and just keep working on it weekly, I think would be the advice I'd give.

Bosco Anthony:

Now I usually like to throw a curve ball question at the end of these interviews. I could talk to you guys for hours, but my question to you both is if you had a time machine and went back in time, what advice would you give a younger version of yourself in this space? I'll start with Andrew, your thoughts, if you go back in time, what would you do differently?

Andrew Siracusa:

What I would do differently is probably get more education. We jumped into the company and we both were in the trades. We really never ran a construction company at all. In the start, we did work well onsite together. We always communicated well, but I think it's getting more educated based on different elements of the business. If it was sales, if it's being a construction manager, just getting more education on how to structure the business and getting more intel would've been great. And I’d bring the right people on board earlier on. It’s just about sourcing out the right people and then having the right intel.

Andrew Siracusa:

I think we ran on the fly a little bit, thinking that we’d create it as we were going along, which we did, but obviously sometimes we would spin. You think you're getting it right or we had these great ideas, but we never knew how to put the ideas together and make them work, and that's why we struggled all way through.

Marcus Elliott:

That's what APB helped with.

Andrew Siracusa:

That's what I'm saying. So we had all the great ideas, we just didn't know what to do with them.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Andrew Siracusa:

APB came along. Here we go, now we can implement it. There's a strategy to implement ideas.

Marcus Elliott:

I think for me it would be going back, I think I'd tell myself just be open to hearing different ideas. I think you just get so railroaded with one way when you first start because you think, "Yeah, I know what I need to do.” But I think now going back I’d say, "Just open up your mind to different ideas," I think would be the thing I'd say to myself and, “absorb as much information as you can.”

Andrew Siracusa:

Put your hand up. Put your hand up when you can't do it; admit it. “I need help with this.” That's probably a big one too.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm going to make a prediction that vulnerability's going to be the future love language for all builders out there. But gents, I appreciate the time, the energy and the inspiration. You guys are doing well and I look forward to keeping up with your stories in the future as well.

Marcus Elliott:

Okay. Thanks, Bosco. Thank you.

Andrew Siracusa:

Thank you, Bosco.

Bosco Anthony:

Cheers.

Bosco Anthony:

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at APB can help you grow your building company visit associationofprofessionalbuilders.com. See you next time.