Episode 84: How To Sign Contracts 12 Months In Advance With Roland Nairnsey

Professional Builders Secrets brings you an exclusive episode with new home sales coach and founder of New Home Sales Plus, Roland Nairnsey. Throughout this episode, Roland outlines where builders struggle today when it comes to contracts and sales, and shares his insights on the tactics profitable builders use to sign contracts 12 months in advance.

 

Inside episode 84 you will discover

• How to customise pitches based on prospects' needs and create urgency to close future agreements
• How to identify ideal buying personas and understand customer preferences in contracts
• Effective sales and marketing tactics in the construction industry today
• Trends in the building space
• And much, much more.

 

Listen to the full episode to uncover the sales and marketing tactics that work in the industry and learn how to start signing contracts months in advance.

 

Roland Nairnsey - Coach & Founder of New Home Sales Plus

Roland became a licensed Realtor in 1984 and started working for his first homebuilder in 1987. He has successfully sold homes for numerous builders ever since as both a salesperson, selling Sales Manager and Director of Sales, and is personally responsible for almost one billion dollars’ worth of new home sales. Roland formed his own training company New Home Sales Plus, a few years ago and has very quickly gained a loyal following of clients all over North America.

Connect with Roland

 

Timeline

1:43 About Roland and what his company specialises in

4:02 Where builders struggle when it comes to contracts and sales

14:15 What customers are looking for in contracts

17:31 Discovering the character of your clients

24:19 What type of buying persona or avatar you should look for 

30:38 Sales and marketing tactics that are working in the industry

34:35 Common blind spots builders have in their agreements

 

Links, Resources & More

Roland Nairnsey New Home Sales Plus

APB Website

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APB on Facebook

APB on YouTube

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Roland Nairnsey:

I think my purpose is to educate people, help improve their lives, but also make it fun, easy-going, connective.

Roland Nairnsey:

How do I get builders to be successful? We have an ongoing coaching program, but that's rooted in following a replicable process that begins with discovery and being genuinely interested in your clients. 

Roland Nairnsey:

I'm just saying, if you're going to negotiate, you need to be good at it and create a win-win situation where you get a sale and protect profits. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Make the buyer feel like they won something special. Make it a good game, is what I'm trying to say. Don't just capitulate quickly. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Basically, it's all rooted back to asking questions and listening and positioning yourself in a way that has meaning to the clients.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing. 

Bosco Anthony:

We have another exciting episode from the Professional Builders Secrets podcast. Joining us today is Roland Nairnsey, President of New Home Sales+ based out of Miami, Florida. Roland, welcome.

Roland Nairnsey:

Thank you so much, Bosco. I'm very happy to be here. I'm honoured to be part of your talk. Thank you.

Bosco Anthony:

We are delighted to have you. I was doing some research on the show before I actually jumped on, and I really love the background you're in because I have a common alignment to it. But please tell us a little bit about what you do and what your company specialises in.

Roland Nairnsey:

Thank you so much. I'm a new home sales coach and consultant in the United States, of course, in North America. I started selling homes a long time ago and then was a sales director and took some training courses. Everything that I teach is completely authentic. It's stuff that I've done myself. In fact, my clients call me ‘The Stuff Guy’ because I help and transform with real world information that they can use. It's not a whole bunch of theory and conjecture; it's hundreds of pages of replicable sales systems and processes that work. I have clients all over the country. I go out there and visit with them, and we help recruit sales teams and we train them on an ongoing basis. We measure the results and we get proven results and increased sales consistently. That's the side of it that I do. 

Bosco Anthony:

I'm just curious, did you land on this purpose when you were seven years old, eight years old? Did you decide, "I'm going to actually coach people for a living?" How did you fall into your purpose?

Roland Nairnsey:

That's a great question. I didn't see that coming. I guess when I was young, I wrote screenplays and I love movies, and I was either selling or acting, which is a similar thing to sales; it's acting with facts. I got into real estate very young. It was just what I started doing, and then I discovered the coaching aspect of new home sales, and I just fell in love with it. 

Roland Nairnsey:

I just took delight and pleasure in watching people improve their lives and careers with real world information. That swayed me over to that side, but I'm like you with your TED Talks. You have your message to convey, but you can make it interesting, fun and memorable. I have the English sense of humour, as I grew up in England before I came to the States. People do tend to remember that I’m the one who makes goofy jokes to relate to the material. I think my purpose in that regard is to educate people, help improve their lives, but also make it fun, easy-going, connective, that kind of thing. 

Bosco Anthony:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say sales is acting with facts, but I think I would quote you on that because I actually really like that.

Roland Nairnsey:

Okay. We're good.

Bosco Anthony:

The theme of today is around how to sign contracts 12 months or a year or a few months in advance, basically how to pre-sell contracts in advance. Where do you think builders struggle right now when it comes to contracts and sales? I think why don't we look at it from a holistic view before we dive a little deeper? Where do you think the builders are struggling today when it comes to contracts and sales?

Roland Nairnsey:

From the experience that I have with the various builders I've worked with, I know we've been through interesting times. I think the builders have been confused as to what they can do. I think the answer now is uncluttering and simplifying and getting back to basics. Most of the economists who I follow talk about it being like 2019 again, early 2020. Pre COVID, there were really good markets, but you had to be good at what you do. And then we had COVID and it actually created a boom, as we all know, with rates as low as they were in the States anyway, and I think there's just been a whole bunch of confusion. We need now to simplify, get back to basics and have a simple message and positive selling skills. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Some of the salespeople I've worked with who have gone through COVID find that their skills have atrophied. They haven't used them, and they're confused. There's all these warnings about what we can't do. I say, "Let's just do what we can do. Let's just make it simple. ‘It's great to meet you. Let's find out what you're interested in. Let's design and build that home around those needs,’ and keep it simple."

Roland Nairnsey:

Stop creating imaginary barriers or confusion, because as you know, confusion leads to indecision, and you've got to be clear and simple with your message.

Bosco Anthony:

Now, how do you help builders with their sales processes and to get better contracts for future contracts? How do you help them with their sales processes?

Roland Nairnsey:

First of all, you have to have the right team in place. I spend a lot of time helping them recruit the ideal candidates. We don't need real estate experience necessarily, but typically people with sales experience. We gravitate towards people who have been selling something at a high rate, whether it's cars or rentals or that kind of stuff. We'll build a sales team. Then really, you need a training program rooted in, and it starts with discovery and being interested. 

Roland Nairnsey:

We just briefly chatted prior to this podcast, and you're obviously a person who's good at asking questions and being interested in others, and that's the basis. You want salespeople who are naturally curious, mentally nimble, coachable, who can follow a process and are certainly persistent, who really don't hear objections and don't hear ‘no.’ I think that idea of caring about your clients and being empathetic is huge, but also that has to be coupled with a resilience where you can handle rejection and objections and just manage them in a positive way.

Roland Nairnsey:

How do I get builders to be successful? We have an ongoing coaching program, but that's rooted in following a replicable process that begins with discovery and being genuinely interested in your clients, and then phrasing what you have in a way that makes sense to the clients. Not, "Let me tell you about my builder. We have the greatest builder." No, you don't know the client. How can you possibly say that? You've got to root any sales, anything you're selling, in discovery and learning about the clients and being genuinely interested and then phrasing it in a way that has meaning to them, not the other way around. What do you think?

Bosco Anthony:

Look, funnily enough, my first job in Canada before I actually went on this path was as a professional telemarketer selling timeshare to Canadians and Americans. I remember going back and reading the pitch, and it was really interesting because I couldn't use it. It was a pitch, but I was thinking, "How do I investigate further? How do I actually get them motivated?" I had to reinvent the pitch, and I definitely resonated when you said it's really about getting to know the people you're dealing with. 

Bosco Anthony:

Let's dig deeper there just a little bit, because from what I'm hearing you say, you recommend that every builder out there get to know their prospects and potentially qualify them and then customise a pitch based on what they know about the prospects. Is that correct?

Roland Nairnsey:

Brilliantly said, actually, yes, Bosco. It's not completely making up your presentation every single time, but absolutely it's got to be rooted in basic discovery. I've even narrowed this down into public discovery and private discovery. The public stuff is: "How'd you hear about us? Great. What was it on the website? When are you thinking of moving in? Our homes are being built from $500,000 to $1 million, with high-end features,” and that kind of stuff. 

Roland Nairnsey:

The more private stuff is: what is their real why? What's their motivation? What's their pain point? A lot of people aren't going to tell you that in the first five minutes. They're just not. It's too private. But if you build trust and you're empathetic, then after a little bit, people will open up. But let's understand that you have five or six questions, maybe five or six minutes to get somebody's attention when they walk into your sales arena. I know when you were doing timeshare, you probably had eight seconds to keep them on the phone and they’d just hang up. That's a little different.

Bosco Anthony:

I remember back in the day, I had to tap into the sentiments of taking a holiday, and that was how I could closely associate a product to that sentiment. I’d get people to think about the last time they took a holiday. That was an interesting question that I loved asking: "When was the last time you took a holiday?" Because I just didn't know what to expect. 

Bosco Anthony:

With the current economic outlook in the world, and with everything that's going on, the uncertainty and just every outlook made available to the media today, which obviously gives a lot of people heartburn, and for some people it keeps them up at night. How do you view that in the world, especially if you're a builder, and how should a builder really prioritise pre-planning? Because this whole concept today is about pre-sales or pre-planning for the future. Why is pre-planning so important and how do you help builders get there?

Roland Nairnsey:

Fair enough. I think that you have to have economic data on your side. Even as a sales trainer, I work with about 30 builders on a monthly basis, and I have just enough economic information to be dangerous. I listen to some of the best podcasts. In fact, I was just on a call with some guys at Zonda, which is a very well-known Meyers research platform. They do research, and I was just confirming facts. I think if you’re rooted in economic data to reassure the builders that these are realistic projections, that's the starting point. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Then the salespeople have to have a basic understanding of how the economy is affecting them. In most places, at least in the States, it's so much healthier than the actual media would make it seem. Not to bash the media; that that's not my agenda. But if you don't have a filter to analyse data, then you're going to think it's a terrible time to buy, and you’re just going to sit on the sidelines.

Roland Nairnsey:

Guess what? There's a shortage of homes in the states. We're upside down by about five million. We only have a couple of months’ worth of supply, when normal is considered six months’ supply. Unemployment's at 3.2% in the States, which is almost full employment. If you want to work, you really can, which means people do have income. If you can't sell in those conditions, there's something not right with you, if you don't understand how that positions you. Now, I can't speak globally. I'm not in every single market like you are, but I think a beginning point is to train your salespeople to make sure they have essential economic data on their side to support the idea that now is a great time to buy. To finish that statement, in the States, now is a great time to buy because a year ago, builders were shut down.

Roland Nairnsey:

We weren't doing pre-sales probably, and if you did, maybe you had an escalation clause where you couldn't guarantee the price because costs were so volatile. There were supply chain issues and a bidding war. It really wasn't pleasant to be a buyer in that market. Now it's great. It's like a safe haven. You can come in, you can choose your home again, choose a home site, personalise it with whatever the process is, and rest assured that the price is locked in again and your selections will be made. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Most builders are giving a higher level of finish to offset the fact that rates have gone up a little bit. Really there's a strong case to be made for now being a great time to buy. But you have to have economic data and intelligence to support that. Otherwise, it does sound like just a hokey thing that you're saying. I think that combination would be important.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like data sells narratives as well; it gives the builder extra value. Let's talk about buyers a little bit. What are the findings that you have learnt about buyers in the building space that every builder should be aware of when it comes to closing a sale?

Roland Nairnsey:

I think the buyers got scared with what's going on, everything that you said there. They just sat on the sidelines for a couple of months, and then they've come back out again, recognising that they want a brand new home and that a brand new home is more appealing than a used home or a resale. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Just tapping into what they want to learn about and not having your own bias, not making assumptions, doing the research on what the clients want, but then really having a sales team that can ask questions and translate features into benefits. My first book is Mastery of Selling: For New Homes. My next one is Mastery of Negotiation, which doesn't mean you have to negotiate, but I'm just saying if you're going to negotiate, you need to be good at it and create a win-win situation where you get a sale and protect profits.

Roland Nairnsey:

But basically, it's all rooted back to asking questions and listening and positioning yourself in a way that has meaning to the client. To peel the onion back and see how do builders deal with it and what you're looking at, just understand the market you're in, but make sure you translate what you're doing into benefits for clients. I call it FBI: feature, benefit, involvement. The feature might be that you have some kind of a product, maybe maintenance free vinyl or HardiPlank or brick or stucco. What this means to you is that it’s then maintenance free. We'll just give you more time. Maybe in my case that means I can spend more time with my beautiful son, Max, which would be a hot button or my lovely wife. 

Roland Nairnsey:

But my point is that just the feature is maintenance free, but the client might now know what that is or what it does. Or you might be providing green features, or some other stuff, but the salesperson needs to explain that simply to the client. “That means that you'll have a healthier home and will save money. Is that important to you?” They answer, "Yeah, of course it's important. Thank you for connecting me to that emotion of the feature and the benefit." The feature is logical, the benefit is emotional, but the involvement question connects you to that emotion. The heightened level: feature, benefit, involvement. There we go. If the builder has a vision about something but the salesperson doesn't understand it or can't explain it simply, then you'll be losing potential clientele.

Bosco Anthony:

Now, what are customers looking for in contracts, for a builder who's potentially bringing on a customer? I always like to look at it from a different angle rather than the builder's angle. I thought I’d ask this question from a customer's perspective.

Roland Nairnsey:

First of all, in my book, I have a list of about a hundred words that we use in sales. Not to pick on you, but the word contract, we've actually replaced with the word agreement. In my training, if people say the wrong word, we throw a soft foam ball at each other, to train each other. That word agreement sounds so much nicer than a contract. If you’ve watched Goodfellas or any of those Mafia movies, they put out a contract on you. It's not a lot, it's a home site. It's not a house, it's a home. It's not standard, it's included. The words make a difference. Sorry about that little lecture.

Bosco Anthony:

No. That's good to know. I like the word agreement. It's actually more bonding.

Roland Nairnsey:

That's the idea; that's your background and connection. We're agreeing to sell, agreeing to buy, but your question was: what are the clients looking for?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. In an agreement.

Roland Nairnsey:

I think it's a great point. I think that it depends on the buyer. I teach personality style in the training because you should learn a process one way, but then learn to adjust it for the various personality styles that you are working with. But I think most normal buyers care about integrity and the fact that you'll put something in writing and that there aren't going to be any surprises along the way, and that could be at every level of cost: it could be $300,000. I was a sales director fairly recently before I came back to training, and in southwest Florida, we were building homes from about $2 million to just over $10 million. And yet I've sold homes for $300,000 or $400,000 as well. People care about integrity and putting things in writing and not having surprises at every level.

Roland Nairnsey:

They need to understanding if there are going to be changes, what's the bandwidth of those changes? Is it 5% or is it 30%?, in which case they could get really upset. I think it’s just being transparent. I use this example: You go to a restaurant and say to the waiter, "What's good?" He says, "Well, the steak's great." You answer, "I'm a vegetarian. I don't like steak.” “You asked the question.” So, you should give a choice between the seafood and something else. “I'm looking at your salmon or steak. What's better?” Then he can give an educated answer. It's the same thing with your buyers. You might not know what's most important to them. That was maybe a little weird example, but you’ve got to find out what's important to them. Expressive people want shiny objects and they want the latest finishes.

Roland Nairnsey:

Analytical people want energy savings, and they want processes and systems and warranties, extra warranties and proactive warranties. Ds, dominant people, just want to make sure they're getting the best deal and that they're winning something from you. And then Ss just want to know they're dealing with somebody with integrity and a want family type building and that you're interested in them. I think it's not one size fits all, unfortunately, but it's being clear and transparent. And basically Bosco, you say, “Based upon what you shared with me, I can't wait to show you this.” Not, “I have a great idea. Let me show you the ideal four bedroom house.” But rather, “I want to ask you lots of questions about you, your family and what you want to get out of this. Based upon that, here's an idea for you.”

Bosco Anthony:

What you're saying to me is really that discovery plays such a big role because in that discovery process, you're also going to find out the character of the person you're dealing with.

Roland Nairnsey:

Yes.

Bosco Anthony:

And based on that character, you could potentially shape the agreement to work in their favour.

Roland Nairnsey:

Look at you. That was quick. Yeah.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm a quick learner.

Roland Nairnsey:

You are.

Bosco Anthony:

How do we get builders to really get these future agreements, these agreements that are 12 months or six months or three months in advance? How do we get them to start focusing on that? Because I think it sounds like a lot of builders will say, "We're really time poor, we're really focusing on today." How do you get them to look at the future?

Roland Nairnsey:

It's probably a blend. I'm not there, and I'm sure there are so many variables in the many builders listening to this podcast. If you have a neighbourhood, if you're a community builder, then of course you are projecting a blend of move-in ready homes or, I don't like the word spec, we call them designer showcase homes, because they’re professionally curated by our designers. I'm sure if you're in a neighbourhood that you're already budgeting for that. I think a lot of the builders would be more on-your-lot builders and that kind of stuff. Again, I think it's just making it seem simple and easy to follow. 

Roland Nairnsey:

To answer one of your earlier questions, what people want, they want a simple process. They want to know that you're competent, that they can trust you in the transaction, but that it's not going to be way too complicated and that they're going to have to go all over town picking out their flooring and their cabinets.

Roland Nairnsey:

But what you provide is a simple, perhaps a one-stop shop or a process where you manage all those decisions for them. I think the more you can learn about a client and then imbue that idea: “This is going to be a simple process, a fun process. We're here to hold your hand throughout,” and encourage buyers that, “It's okay to trust us. Maybe we have a slot, but you need to get in right now because the next slot's going to be middle of April, two months from now,” or whatever. But I think it's all about just keeping it simple, quite frankly, and being a solution provider as a builder, obviously not presenting problems, but presenting simple solutions for your buyers.

Bosco Anthony:

How do you create urgency for building businesses? How do you help them create that urgency?

Roland Nairnsey:

That's one of my favourite questions because for whatever reason, the last month with my 30 or so teams, we've been asking: “Why my builder? Why my neighbourhood and home? Why now?” For those who have a pen handy, why now is a huge difference maker. For us humans to understand something – you probably know more about this than me based upon your background – but my understanding is we have to hear things at least three times. Would you agree with that? In other words, just to say it one time isn't enough for us to get it. I've broken the sales process down into a three act play, so there's a beginning, middle and end. The beginning is when you meet somebody, you learn about them, you give a presentation.

Roland Nairnsey:

The middle part is when you demonstrate, you narrow down to one of a kind. Act three is closing. And I would advocate that you never negotiate on your feet; always close at your seat. I used to negotiate on my fee, but then I brought prospects back to my desk, sat them down and recapped and got so much better at it. My point is that idea of urgency: you can't wait until act three and say, "Oh, Bosco, you’d better buy now." The prospects would be thinking that they didn't hear that idea before. Upfront, when you meet prospects early on, talk about why now is a great time to buy. There's a phrase, “silent sales tools.” If you're in a sales office, have things around you that refer to a grand closeout, or that mention a grand opening, or that refer to five exciting opportunities, or mention incentives. Incentives have rules. They have timeframes. They have terms that should be stated in writing.

Roland Nairnsey:

You need to use silent sales tools that support that. If you're in a neighbourhood, have lots of sold signs out. When you sell something, put the sold signs out there. If they get knocked down, put them in the windows so that they’re still visible even in the snow and the rain or whatever climate you're in, because they’re the silent sales tools. When somebody is driving through your neighbourhood prior to coming in, perception is reality; they'll see that. I could go on for another day about silent sales tools. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Tomorrow I'm flying up to Pennsylvania to see a wonderful builder. It’s the first time we’ve worked together. The first time I saw the map of their community, they had maybe 350 home sites – instead of lots we call them home sites – but it was a grand opening. They said, "What we need to do is hide all the other home sites, just focus on the current collection," which was about 35 home sites.

Roland Nairnsey:

They quickly did that, and now they’ve got a map that creates urgency. Prospects are only looking at what's available now. The focal point is on today, to build something. It's not, "I'll wait because there's a lot over there that's in the trees, and I'll come back." No, focus on now, but always be thinking about what sales tools are creating urgency. Perception is reality; whatever I believe is real. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Many years ago I sold out of a neighbourhood. We built over 2000 homes and I was there for the last sale. I was there 10 years, and then I went to a builder friend of mine. He hadn't sold a home in his neighbourhood for about four months, and he had 23 homes and home sites left, out of 101. On the very first day on the job, my sign said, “Welcome to our grand close out. 24 exciting opportunities.”

Roland Nairnsey:

Then I changed the sign to say 23, and we just sold one. The bottom line is it took about a month to get the sales going. We did four in the first month, but we sold out in just over three months. There were exactly the same conditions as when I got there. But we just had the buyer believe, correctly, "We're in the final 25% here. It's a grand closeout and there only two corner home sites left, and they have this home we like the most. There are only three opportunities,” or whatever it's going to be. 

Roland Nairnsey:

We need to be constantly thinking about how we narrow down to not just why us, but why now? Upfront you say it, and you show it in the middle, in the demonstration, and you have to narrow down to one of a kind. If you don't narrow down to one of a kind, there is no urgency.

Roland Nairnsey:

If I go to a car dealership and I just look at the cars, that’s great. That's a nice pipe dream. But then I drive one and I pick it out and I like the colours and I like the cup holders and the rims, because I'm a baby, and the stereo has to be loud. If I like that one of a kind, now I'm going to have a sleepless night worrying about that one of a kind on the lot being gone. So, at the end in the sales recap, you say it again, then you would support that in writing. “Here's the home site that you like. Here's the price that we came up with,” and you can give them an idea of the home. It might not be the exact home, it might include things like your plan, your Addison model with the plug and play options of the extended patio, blah, blah, blah. And it's approximately this much.

Roland Nairnsey:

Now the prospect’s falling in love with a one of a kind, there's going to be a fear of loss. The part of the brain, the amygdala that deals with fear, is going to think, "I don't want to do without that anymore. I’d better either buy now or when I come back." That was a long answer, but I do love talking about urgency.

Bosco Anthony:

No. I'm happy about you going through that because what I got from that was this is three acts, and you're repeating this particular statement to create that connection with the product. I totally agree with that. What type of buying persona or avatar should builders be looking for in future agreements? Is there a certain characteristic about a buyer that the salesperson should look for?

Roland Nairnsey:

I’ve always done it the other way around, where we’ll do research on the market, who the market is and who’s in that demographic. It's an interesting way, definitely you have to know that, but usually the builder wouldn't create it. The builder would decide upon a market that they're in, and that may be a region that they're in. You're in a part of Australia, and I don't know what your buyer base is, but I just had a conversation with a builder in Wichita who wants to do a TND, a traditional neighbourhood. I asked, "Who's that buyer going to be?” “I don't know.” “Is it a move up? Is it a right-sizer – somebody moving down? Is it maybe a newly single?” I think that it's a great question. You should understand it and then market directly to that.

Roland Nairnsey:

You could geotarget or geofence and go after many more of what you want, but you need to know it. But it's got to be different things. In a lot of markets I've worked in there are two or three avatars, really. It could be that second or third move up. It could be a right-sizer who wants to scale back and it might be some other blend of some nationality, ethnicity who wants to be in that part of town. A lot depends on what you're selling and on locations, et cetera. But definitely you have to know it, so you're very shrewd to talk about it.

Bosco Anthony:

Look, you hit a chord with me when you said it could be another buyer because, funnily enough, I’m about to put in an offer for another house. I'm a homeowner. I've bought a few houses in my time in different parts of the world and the house I'm looking for, we saw on the weekend and I fell in love with it.

Roland Nairnsey:

Good.

Bosco Anthony:

The seller isn't ready to move out; they need to find another place first. So, I said to the realtor, "I'm willing to wait because that's the one that I want." But you struck a chord with me because perhaps in this particular case, those feature contracts are from potential buyers who own a few assets or own a few properties and can wait 12 months or can wait six months because they have the ability to still survive knowing that their dream home or one of their dream homes or their portfolio is being built. Maybe that's one of the characteristics out there.

Roland Nairnsey:

It is a view, I think because it's an aspirational purchase. It's not your first home. You're willing to say, "Hey, if you guys want to rent it, we'll close and you rent it back, or we'll delay a closing, whatever you guys come up with." In the builder world, most builders I've ever worked for will sell something on a lease-back. The buyer comes in, falls in love with the model, we'll sell it to you and we'll lease it back at 6% so you can have it. You're exactly right, that more aspirational, wealthier buyer usually can wait a little bit to get what they want. Even that might be building something to get more.

Bosco Anthony:

Or have a portfolio.

Roland Nairnsey:

Yeah, have a portfolio. This whole idea of low price doesn't seem to be important to many of the buyers right now. People want what they want; they don't need that low price. It's just not usually what's driving them; they want something better than what they have.

Bosco Anthony:

Look, I'm going to ask a question because obviously we live and breathe around closing and the third act.

Roland Nairnsey:

Okay, thank you.

Bosco Anthony:

What do you need to do as a builder to close those future agreements? For that matter, to close any agreement? I figured this question would get you excited.

Roland Nairnsey:

I'm rubbing my hands. Look at this, I'm all excited. I didn't realise I was such a new home nerd. It's great. It's hilarious because first of all, I get questions on teaching my guys to close all the time, and I'll say, "How well do you open?" In other words, how good is your discovery? I feel like we've covered that though. With good, open-ended questions, you're going to build a case at act one, show it to them at act two and narrow down. With act three, which is closing as you so correctly said, thank you, it's not about the words. That's what I have to shake people out of. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Most books on closing or selling are all about telling you to say this, and I'm sure you know this, but most research shows that most of what we judge is voice tone and body language. For example, I've been to classes when they say, "On a scale of one to 10, 10 being the highest, how much do you want to buy?" and I would never say that.

Roland Nairnsey:

I can't say. It sounds crass, but what I can do is narrow it down to something like, "Have you fallen in love?" And then I'll sit you down and I'll recap it with you because I know you've probably got 30 questions, so why don't I be proactive and take you through a closing process? Long story short, it's not words. It's the process that you have that most people overlook. I learnt this when I was one of 10 sales people in South Florida on a sales floor for 10 years. It was heartbreaking for the first year because I just wouldn't sit everybody down. Then after a year I thought, "Wait a minute, why am I ending up standing up saying, ‘Here's your brochure’? Let's sit everybody down and see what happens."

Roland Nairnsey:

I cultivated this closing process that was as in depth as act one, which would be, “Here's the location that you like and here are the things that you liked about it. Let me put it in writing. You like the grocery store, Whole Paycheck or Whole Food, as we call it here, or whatever it is, around the corner, the airport,” whatever it is that’s most important to them in a community. “Here's the community, here are some amenities.” If you're in an amenitised community, “Here's the outside of the home you like. Let's make sure we pick the architectural style. I believe you wanted the farmhouse or the coastal or something. Let me show you that. Let's go through the floor plan together.”

Roland Nairnsey:

That could be 15 minutes. And if they have kids, “Here are the kids' bedrooms. Let's write their names down. Jack and Diane over here,” two American kids. I’m just being silly, but anyway, we're writing the kids' names down. “What are some of the finishes?” We'll write an approximate price. I'll tell you how easy it is to build. “We have a five step process. You've chosen your home, you choose the home site, you give a small deposit, blah, blah. We're subject to financing.” Guess what, Bosco, we're actually at step one right here. “Let's go ahead. Let's get started.” It's about a 15-minute closing process that will exponentially increase sales. It's not learning a magical phrase or some BS crass statement that sounds so salesy. What do you think?

Bosco Anthony:

That makes really good sense. For me, I would say going back to my selling days, I had to paint the picture. I think what you're doing is helping people envision that home that they want to buy. 

Bosco Anthony:

Let's take a different direction. Let's talk about sales and marketing tactics that are working in the industry today. You're around it a lot more than most builders are. What's working today in the industry?

Roland Nairnsey:

I think that a lot of builders are starting to look at source of traffic instead of source of sale. I did that a lot where I worked as a sales director for four years. We would do newspaper ads and it would drive in traffic every weekend in a market where people read the paper, an older market. But then we looked at the actual sales and everything had come from our website organically or searches where they were looking for our value range. 

Roland Nairnsey:

I think you need to track the source of sale, not just feel good that lots of people were walking in on it. It's different strokes for different folks, but I think now with all the digital capabilities, you can identify, "I've got a group of doctors or nurses or employers over here, and you could geofence or geotarget them and go get them so much more easily."

Roland Nairnsey:

Facebook ads or whatever it might be, Zillow, I'm not advocating one company, but have a marketing expert that knows how to get more of what you want and then have the salespeople track it. The very first question that I teach to ask after you welcome them is, “How did you hear about us?” Great. And then the follow-up question is, “What was it on the website? What was it on the ad? What was it that your friend said?” Learn as much as you can every single time a client comes in and then go get more of that, the stuff that's successful for you. It might be slightly different in different regions, I'm sure of it. 

Roland Nairnsey:

Maybe it's referrals, or word of mouth because you're such a good builder and you're building 10 custom homes a year, not a hundred in a neighbourhood or 500. Maybe it's 10 good referrals, I don't know. Have a referral party and choose your neighbour or something. But it's understanding your market and drilling down and making sure that the frontline sales are asking those questions to give the feedback to the builder and marketing.

Bosco Anthony:

Going back to the source is really important. What are some of the trends that you're seeing in the construction or building space today as well? You said that the unemployment rate's really low, so there's obviously revenue for people to potentially buy homes as well. But what are some of the trends that you see, being so close to builders?

Roland Nairnsey:

In the States, there's a build-to-rent trend that's going on where in quite a few regions people are coming in and just slicing off whole neighbourhoods and making them into rental communities. As far as builder trends, I think just being open-minded and being flexible are important. I work with a lot of family size builders, which means different things I suppose, but it could be 50 to 100 homes a year, not 500. Those builders are becoming much better and much more flexible at blending in some infill or small neighbourhoods with on-your-lot and positioning their on-your-lot ability a lot better where they say, "Look, we have neighbourhoods. You can look at our models, but we can also build on your land or ours." Or you can help them find land if you want to.

Roland Nairnsey:

But I think there's a trend towards being open-minded. Most builders were either one or the other, even 10 years ago. An on-your-lot builder, on-your-land builder, or on-the-community builder. Now, I would say half the builders I work with can delve into either one and aren't boxed in, and they might even get into rentals and rental communities and do a bit of that. I think it's important to understand your business and make sure that you’re profitable, but it’s also important to be flexible and open to different opportunities and how you can leverage that successfully. Does that make sense?

Bosco Anthony:

That's an interesting concept because even here in Australia, at least in Queensland where I'm at in Brisbane, there's a 1% vacancy in rental units in Queensland.

Roland Nairnsey:

Oh my gosh.

Bosco Anthony:

I was talking to a realtor this weekend who said a lot of the buyers are basically looking at townhouses and are looking at units next. We're also having the Olympics coming up in a few years.

Roland Nairnsey:

Nice. That's good to see. I've got to come back over. I haven't been to Australia for about seven years, so it's time to go back.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm sure APB would love to have you.

Roland Nairnsey:

That'd be good. Thank you.

Bosco Anthony:

If you do visit, you'll have to let Russ know. What are some of the builder blind spots when it comes to agreements?

Roland Nairnsey:

Great question.

Bosco Anthony:

What are some of the most common blind spots that you encounter working with builders?

Roland Nairnsey:

We all have biases, or buying heuristics, selling heuristics. One of the biases that I ran into recently was the idea of negotiation. I try to teach it as a win-win, where we are not giving it away just to show weakness; it's part of a pricing strategy. In parts of the States, for a while people wanted to feel like they were getting a better deal. There are ways to create a win-win without giving away the farm. And I teach that stuff. I had a builder at the very high end, who had a buyer who asked him did he negotiate, he said, "No." Then the buyer left; he didn't buy. He bought from somebody else. That's a lose-lose.

Roland Nairnsey:

The builder didn't get the sale. The guy was just nibbling. I always want to make an offer. It doesn't mean I won't pay full price, but if I'm going to buy a home or a car, I always want to make an offer. I hope you don't get insulted by that, because that's your own bias. It's just that I'm going to try it and try to stick with it. On the selling side, as a builder, it just being open-minded about pricing strategies, it's not price apologising. A builder friend of mine calls it that, but it's not. It's just being smart. Retail figured it out without showing weakness. But a lot of what I teach is in my next book, Mastery of Negotiation. It’s stuff I've learnt from others, by the way, I don't think I created any of it. I just implemented it and got to practise it.

Roland Nairnsey:

It's creating a win-win. If you have an incentive, there have got to be terms, they’ve got to be in writing with an expiration date. A lot of the builders I'm working with right now have a little bit of room, where manager will say, "Okay, here's the published price. We've got to maybe 1% or 2% in our back pockets. Don't give it away if you don't have to." 

Roland Nairnsey:

But if the buyer wants window treatments, if the buyer wants ceiling fans, if the buyer wants an upgraded fridge, say, "Well, if I could, would you?" In the old phrase from 30 years ago, “If I could, would you? Well, let me write it down. Let me put it together. I'll run it by my boss and we'll see." Use the higher authority of your boss to say, "I'm not guaranteed, but I'll try." Now the buyer feels like they want something and it might have cost you $1,500 or $2,000 that you had in the budget.

Roland Nairnsey:

My point here is that there are biases against certain things that really are just pride and ego as opposed to a business plan. Come up with a business plan and decide, yes, I have 2% per home that my sales director or my manager or my salesperson can work with. Hopefully they're not panicked by that and they can work through that in a way that doesn't appear to be manipulating people. I don't want that to be the idea, but make it feel like the buyer won something special. It was like the World Cup final where Messi scored a penalty and came from behind or whatever, went to extra time, that was it. But anyway, make it a good game is what I'm trying to say. Don't just capitulate quickly.

Bosco Anthony:

Fair enough. Now let's talk about your books.

Roland Nairnsey:

Thank you.

Bosco Anthony:

You've written Mastery of Closing. You've got Mastery of Negotiation.

Roland Nairnsey:

Actually it's not called that. It's now Mastery of Selling.

Bosco Anthony:

That's right. Okay.

Roland Nairnsey:

I changed the name because I realised it wasn't only about closing, but that was the old title, that was interesting.

Bosco Anthony:

Sorry, I mixed it up with another book that I read from Brian Tracy, The Art of Closing the Sale, that was one of the first sales books that I read when I was 19 years old. Sorry, I’m going back to my roots.

Roland Nairnsey:

Tracy's great, and Tom Hopkins is great.

Bosco Anthony:

Those were the old school cats. Zig Ziglar and Jim Rohn; they're all the pioneers. Looking at your books, what are some of the key takeaways from your current book and what can people look forward to from your future book?

Roland Nairnsey:

I think first of all, keep it simple. Early on, there's one page that describes that three act play: beginning, middle and end. That's probably one of the most important pages; it’s important to understand that there's a process there and if you miss a step, you might make a sale in a really good market, but it might come back to haunt you because you don't know enough about that buyer. Just by keeping it simple and step by step, it'll get you more sales. If you're not getting sales, you can go look at the process and fix it and that kind of stuff. Then really, the theme with me, the older I get, the more empathetic I get and the more questions I really do ask. 

Roland Nairnsey:

I was a sales director in Southwest Florida from 2013 to 2017 before I came back and started my own company. I'm genuinely interested in people; I care about them. “What is it about that home you like and what is it about the location? We have these kinds of home sites: what are you looking for?” Then really listen and pick up on those clues. Malcolm Gladwell, in Blink, talks about mind readers and amphitheatre and it's so real.

Roland Nairnsey:

If you're going to be in sales, then it's just not binary. People don't always say what they're thinking or what they mean. It's the silence and how they react to things and their body language and all that kind of stuff that you need to be paying attention to. I guess on a simple level, there is a process. A lot of people don't even know it. On a deeper level, ask good open-ended discovery questions. And when they ask you a question, don't rush in with an answer until you're really comfortable with why they have asked that question.

Roland Nairnsey:

If you were a client saying to me, “I want something that's really open,” I’d think, "All my plans are open," so I'd say, "Tell me more about that, Bosco. What does open mean to you? And what else is important to you and your family? Good." Then I can repeat it back and we call it chunking. “If I hear you correctly, you want this, you want this and you want this.” And it's that open-ended discovery, that back and forth early on, that will get you tons of sales at the end. If you open well, you can close strongly, but not the other way around.

Bosco Anthony:

Amazing. When’s the book due? When are you having the book out? Where can people find the books?

Roland Nairnsey:

Mastery of Selling is out. You can get it on Amazon, actually. Mastery of Selling: For New Homes is out now. Please, it's international. You can get it anywhere. It's coming out on Audible in the spring. I'm finishing up recording that, which is an interesting project. And then Mastery of Negotiation will be coming out in the summer; it's half the size. It's 456 pages. It's really a how-to; give it to a salesperson. That's your sales Bible as it were. Mastery of Negotiation is at the advanced level where it's going to be much shorter and it's much more 22 processes. You can implement each one, which will teach you to not just get the sale, but create an experience and get a win-win.

Bosco Anthony:

What type of resources do you offer for the builder listeners out there? You said you're in Miami, but you're all over the US. What are some of the things that builders can do to follow you or even hear you speak? Tell us a little bit about what you do on a day-to-day basis.

Roland Nairnsey:

On my website, New Home Sales+, the plus could be anything to anybody. That's nice and open. I have some videos on there and I'm always adding videos and short podcasts. I decided we have short attention spans, so I do 10-minute short podcasts. And then what else? I write blogs on a constant basis. I'm just about to do articles for some of the builder magazines in the States. And then I do a lot by Zoom. Thank you for getting up early, by the way. I forgot to say that.

Bosco Anthony:

My pleasure.

Roland Nairnsey:

It’s very nice of you. I know the time difference, if you're in Australia or wherever you're across the world and want to Zoom, like we are, it's pretty easy. We just need to figure out those time zones and I'd be happy to be flexible. Yes, it's fun to travel somewhere, but not always practical. 

Roland Nairnsey:

One of the things that I realised during COVID is I had so many builders who would hire just one or two salespeople, and it's not practical to go there to train just one. I created this virtual academy, which we do about three times a year now, and it's the same training material, which is about 180 pages of stuff that you will replicate sequentially. We do it every week; every Friday we'll do a three-hour session. It's live, it's interactive. It's not a video that you buy. I think it has more value that way, where you can actually interact with me and learn. That's also something pretty neat where you could understand the sales process in real time over five parts, even if we're not together. Ideally, flying out somewhere would be amazing.

Bosco Anthony:

And otherwise, I guess we can find you on stage because you do a lot of speaking as well.

Roland Nairnsey:

Yeah, I do. I'm a regular at the International Builder Show – in Vegas this year. I did a couple of spots there. I'm speaking next week at a Summit Builder Partnership in the States in Fort Lauderdale. I'm often around. I normally have my own retreat. I might not be doing one this summer. I might skip this year and focus more on next year, on 2024. I'm working on the books and it's just taking so much time. But I'm easy to connect with. If nothing else, pop me an email. I'd love to chat with you. It's [email protected]; that's easy. And I would love to figure out how to help you in any way possible.

Roland Nairnsey:

And plus, I have lots of other resources like people who I know that I can introduce you to. If you have a certain need for something within the industry, I have a lot of great other companies that are vetted by our other builders. We formed a Mastermind group within the builders I work with, and that's a live group where they answer questions and help each other out. Hopefully in there are some resources for your builders to reach out to me. Thank you.

Bosco Anthony:

Amazing, amazing. Well, Roland, they say that a great conversation is when you learn something new. It's fair to say that I'm sure our builders have learnt a few things today, so I really appreciate your time and energy and we look forward to having you back in the near future. And again, thank you so much for sharing your insights today.

Roland Nairnsey:

Thank you, Bosco. It's a pleasure. And thanks to APB. I appreciate you and Russ for putting this together. Thank you so much.

Bosco Anthony:

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at APB can help you grow your building company, visit associationofprofessionalbuilders.com. See you next time.