Episode 10: How Builders Are Adapting To Change With Trevor Salter

In episode ten of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, our host, Bosco Anthony is joined by Trevor Salter, director of Salter Builders based in Nelson, New Zealand. Throughout this episode, Trevor uncovers how builders are adapting to change. 

Salter Builders specialises in building bespoke, architectural new home builds. The team at Salter Builders believes that being involved in the very early concept stages to be a key component of a successful outcome for their client’s build and budget. 

Trevor’s company has over 20 years of experience building on some of the most challenging locations within the Christchurch, Tasman and Nelson regions in New Zealand.

Tune in to this episode to hear what made Trevor choose residential construction, why he almost left the industry all together and his view on the trends we can expect to see in the industry. 

 

Trevor Salter - Director of Salter Builders

Trevor is a Registered Master Builder, Licensed Building Practitioner and the Owner/Director of Salter Builders. Trevor’s business has been operating since 2007, offering unique, bespoke, custom design and build solutions in the Nelson/Tasman region of New Zealand.

Connect with Salter Builders

 

Timeline

1:33 Introduction to Trevor and Salter Builders.

5:49 What made Trevor choose residential construction?

7:58 The struggles Trevor has faced throughout his career.

9:22 What the industry was lacking when Trevor started out.

14:15 What made a significant impact on Trevor's business?

17:03 Trevor’s view on industry pressures.

19:12 Why builders need to adapt to change.

21:38 Trends and innovations in the industry in New Zealand.

27:31 The legacy Trevor is leaving.

28:48 Trevor’s advice to younger builders. 

 

Links, Resources & More

Salter Builders Website
APB Website
APB on Instagram
APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes, financials, operations and marketing. Today I'm joined by Trevor Salter, Managing Director of Salter Builders, a local boutique family-run business operating in the city of Nelson in the Tasman Bay region of New Zealand, building bespoke, architecturally designed homes. Trevor, welcome. How are you doing today?

Trevor Salter:

Very good, thanks, Bosco. Nice to catch up finally.

Bosco Anthony:

I really appreciate your time today all the way from New Zealand. Trevor, let's start off with something really simple. Tell us a little bit about Salter Builders and what you specialise in, just so the audience knows a little bit about what you do.

Trevor Salter:

What we generally focus on now is the higher end of the market, delivering houses that are outside the norm. Generally, our clients are building their last home, not their first home. They may have been through the experience before and they've been able to come up with ideas on how they want their final house to be. One of the things that we specialise in is difficult construction, which here in Nelson is a lot of hillside construction. That includes building on steep slopes where access is not that great; basically anything that is outside of the ordinary. What this has allowed us to do is really narrow the field that we are competing against, because most builders generally will steer clear of anything that's too difficult. It gives us that ability to be bespoke and be a specialist in what we do.

Bosco Anthony:

What was your background prior to getting into the building industry? Is this something that came naturally to you? If we go back down memory lane, what compelled you to get into it?

Trevor Salter:

Ever since I was at school, it was definitely something that I wanted to do. I was always good with my hands. I really enjoyed making things; that was anything in my childhood where I could actually create something. There’s a lot of satisfaction in creating a physical thing that you can then look back on and say, “That’s taken a lot of effort and it looks quite impressive.” When I was at school, my best two subjects were woodwork and technical drawing, so they were leading me down that path. I had a friend, a really good friend, who joined the New Zealand Navy and he was a year ahead of me and he sold me on that idea, so I had to put the building career on hold and set about joining the Royal New Zealand Navy. I'm glad I did; it was a really good experience.

Trevor Salter:

I spent several years travelling and seeing the world, but it wasn't a long-term thing for me. I got out of the Navy and ended up on the west coast of the South Island, working in the tourism industry. Again, that was a fill-in job for me, but it ended up being nine years of that before I decided it was time to follow my passion and my dream and go into the building industry. My partner at the time, who is now my wife, knew somebody who put me in contact with a builder in Christchurch, and that was my opening to get into the industry. He offered me a job and it started from there.

Bosco Anthony:

As they say, that's the start of history, right? History in the making.

Trevor Salter:

Absolutely. That was a pivotal point for me.

Bosco Anthony:

Tell us a little bit about your background. You talked about being in the Navy and you got into the industry, and you'd had a lot of interest in this industry. What was your background prior to getting into the building industry? Did you have any of those technical tools around you and when you did get into it, what were some of the things that really progressed your career at the start?

Trevor Salter:

Because of my background, I was always really good with my hands. I've got the ability to pick those skills up quite quickly. I've had confidence from an early age just to grab something and run with it. Quite often throwing yourself in the deep end is the best way to learn. I think those skills have been there since childhood and I've found that it's really easy to train somebody who has a natural ability. Somebody may want to get into the industry and become a carpenter or a builder, but it's really hard for some people and they really struggle. I think I've been lucky that I've had those skills. I think some people are born with the ability to do practical things a lot better than others.

Bosco Anthony:

Trevor, looking back, what compelled you to get into the building construction industry today and looking at it today as well, has that purpose changed over time? What excites you about it, looking back then and looking at it now, has that mantra changed for you or is it the same purpose moving forward?

Trevor Salter:

I think the first thing that compelled me to get into the industry was that I wanted to build my own home. I'd had the ability to help my father build his house. I'd worked on a couple of other projects where I had a taste of what building was like. It's a Kiwi dream for a lot of people to build their own home. I thought I knew a bit about building until I started to train. Training and learning proper carpentry skills made me realise that there was far more that I had to learn. I thought that I knew quite a bit, so the struggles that I had in the beginning were, first of all, getting fit for the job. It's very demanding on your body, and it's not something where you're doing the same thing all the time; there's so much variety.

Trevor Salter:

When you're out on the building site, one day you could be standing heavy frames and the next day you're not actually carrying anything. You're just doing really light work. I quickly learned in the early stages at I needed to keep fit and I needed to strengthen myself by just doing regular exercise outside of work as well. Even lifting weights two or three times a week definitely helped. It cut down a lot on injuries because there are quite often situations where you're cold lifting and you're not really warming up, and then you're lifting something heavy and you pull a muscle in your back and you think, "That was stupid. I didn't think about that."

Bosco Anthony:

Let's dig a little bit deeper into the struggles that you encountered when you first started out. You talked a little bit about personal physical fitness as part of those things that you needed to focus on. I believe that from all the builders that I've interviewed and spoken to, they got into this business because they had a passion for building, but builders don't necessarily have an understanding of running a business. They learn that as they go. Was that the same for you when you first started out? When you look back at your struggles now, would you say that learning how to run a successful business and what it takes to run the operations was where some of your struggles were? Or when you look back, what were some of the other struggles that you may have had?

Trevor Salter:

Absolutely. Starting out in business and once I was qualified was a massive learning curve because of the industry that we have, and it's still pretty much the same now. You do your apprenticeship, you learn how to become a craftsman or a builder, and you actually learn the practical skills really well, but the training doesn't teach you how to be a business person. It tends to be a problem in this industry, even to this day. People go out there and they think, "I’ll go along and hopefully everything will fall into place." I was guilty of that. I thought I knew more than I did. Knowing what I know now, the best advice I could ever give anybody is, “Before you even think about it, get mentorship from someone who knows what they're talking about.”

Trevor Salter:

Talk to a builder who can actually tell you how to run a proper building company. It's one of those things in the industry here, where many builders keep those things close to their chest and they don't like to share that information. I think they're a little bit concerned that they're giving away secrets, that someone might get the better of them and actually outperform them. Something I think is a problem for many is they don't want to expose themselves because they know they're not doing it properly.

Bosco Anthony:

I guess the other question that I had for you is, when you look back or when you first started and where the industry's evolved, what was the industry lacking at the time when you got into the business? Was it a lack of mentorship? Was it a lack of direction? Was it a lack of resources for running a business? Where did the industry lack when you look at it now?

Trevor Salter:

I think you answered that quite well, because I think all those things were lacking. There was no clear guidance on where you could go to get that inform. I'd ask my boss that I used to work for – he said he'd help me. When it came down to it, he couldn't really help me because he didn't really know what he was doing himself. There was definitely a lack of avenues out there where you could find the information that you needed. I think it's still like that today. It's not as bad, but it is still one of the reasons why so many building companies don't last. People set out thinking, "It's just all going to fall into place." It really comes down to having a plan in place. It's not as straightforward as many people believe.

Bosco Anthony:

I guess the beauty of the internet today is that we're starting to get a little bit more connected, but it really comes down to how you use the internet to your benefit. Let's fast forward a few years as you start to progress with your business. How did you first hear about APB and how did you originally get involved working with them?

Trevor Salter:

When I first heard about APB, the timing was right for me. They had been sending emails and I'd been getting them in my inbox, and I’d had a brief look at them, but I hadn't really taken much notice. It was also that period where in my business, I was working long hours and I was struggling to make a real profit. I was at a point in my career where I was actually thinking, "Do I carry on?" Because it wasn't turning out the way I expected. I needed to do something; I just didn't know what it was.

Trevor Salter:

Things turned up at the right time. When I looked into APB initially, I thought they had the answers, so I mulled over it for a little while and thought, "Well, what have I got to lose? I need to try something." Once I did delve into it properly and realised what they had to offer, I realised they had the answers to my questions, and there was no turning back from there. When you look back at pivotal points in your life, that would have to be one of them. It's where the direction changed quite dramatically.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk a little bit about your relationship with APB. How did working with them and the Mentorship Program really elevate and change your business? What were some of the key takeaways that you had from learning from the things they had to offer you?

Trevor Salter:

One of the first key takeaways that I discovered was how to correctly price in and recover my fixed expenses. I was always under the understanding that everything had to be covered with your labour rate. Now I understand that that is not the case, because as your business evolves, you have more and more running expenses, and that has to be recovered from every job. Once I understood that and realised we could apply that to the pricing that we were doing, I very quickly did that to about three jobs. That started the process where I felt like for every hour that I worked, I was actually being paid for.

Trevor Salter:

There’s a frustration factor of feeling like you're working for free when you are outside of what you have priced into a job. If you've allowed a certain number of hours to that job and you know that you're going over that, you get really frustrated. You think you're working for nothing, but once you understand that the fixed expenses are critical, that changes things. Also, knowing the realistic margin rates that should be applied and knowing that they should be applied to everything was a takeaway. As I said earlier, the first three jobs we did that to really changed the game for us, and the money side of things turned around quite quickly because they were reasonably big projects.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you had a lot more financial awareness of your costings and your projections to your clients, from what you're describing. If you look back at some of those key turning points for your business acumen and your business path, what were some key applications that made significant impact to the business? It sounds like you're talking a little bit about the calculations and costings as well, but let's talk a little bit about those key applications through the mentoring. I know the mentoring has different levels, so I'm sure there were things that you were learning as you were growing through, but I'm just curious, what did you apply that really made a significant impact to you?

Trevor Salter:

The mentoring made me accountable, initially. I started the Mentorship Program with Andy and he basically put some fairly hard deadlines on me. I had to set myself some targets and put a plan together, knowing where I was going, because I was adrift. I set a plan in motion and actually sat down and decided where I wanted to be, how much money I wanted to make and what I wanted my business to be. Again, it was something as simple as telling me to specialise. For most builders, when you tell them to become a specialist, they absolutely freak out. They say, "I'm going to miss out on all this other work." I think a lot of it is just belief. You’ve just got to believe. You’ve got to believe that what you are being told is actually true.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk about success a little bit. Everything that I know about success is that it leaves blueprints and I'm sure your business has left a blueprint behind and will do so as it moves forward as well. What are some of the key reasons for the success of your business? You talked a little bit about transforming your business into a niche specialty. I think that's a really powerful statement, because a lot of businesses don't look at that with the lens of opportunity. They might look at that and say, "Well, we're missing out on that market, the rest of the bigger market.” What were some of the key success blueprints for your business?

Trevor Salter:

The key successes were, as I mentioned earlier, making sure we were recovering the right amount of money per job and having a plan in place. Another was sticking to the plan, so that meant setting goals. Some of the goals that I set, I initially thought were pretty high, but if you don't set high goals, then you're probably not challenging yourself enough and it's too easy to go off track. When you set reasonable goals and put a plan in place on how you're actually going to achieve them, it’s surprising what you do on a daily basis to make that happen.

Trevor Salter:

We set goals, and we exceeded them; we exceeded them massively. It doesn't print that blueprint in you because you know how to succeed. You have to celebrate the fact that you have succeeded and understand that you can do it, and then think, "Okay. Now that I have succeeded, it's time to reset some better goals and go after them again." That's still my philosophy to this day, and the other thing is that I still look to mentorship through other areas. The self-development side of things has been a key thing for me.

Bosco Anthony:

Trevor, if you were to look at the industry holistically today, what are some of the pressures that builders face today? I'm curious to know your thoughts – if they’ve changed from pre to the post COVID era as well. What are some of those key pressures that you think the builders specifically face today?

Trevor Salter:

The pressure that a lot of builders face even on a day-to-day basis is the fact that they have to work so long and hard, and it's a lifestyle. Anyone who gets into this industry and thinks they’re going to work from nine to five and have their weekends off is only kidding themselves. The pressure is always there as far as running your business to its potential, but also you're constantly dealing with the pressure of delivering for clients. Clients come in all shapes and sizes and with all sorts of different expectations. Some can obviously – if you allowed it to happen – add a lot of pressure to the situation. Post COVID, it's interesting how things have changed here. Especially recently, it's almost evolving on a daily basis now, and we are finding things that we didn't even expect that were coming.

Trevor Salter:

In the last lockdown we had here, they locked down the whole country, but within three weeks we were allowed to go back to work, but they still had Auckland in lockdown. Now, initially what they didn't realise is that a lot of manufacturing is done only in Auckland. It quickly started to have a domino effect where certain things were getting harder to get hold of and we’re still dealing with that now. Even though Auckland is up and running again, the supply chain issues are just getting longer and longer. Every day now, we are just finding things that we didn't expect. Just today, I had a contractor come back to me and say that he couldn't even look at doing anything for us for three months.

Bosco Anthony:

Timelines have been affected as well. How are you coping with the challenges and risks that come with the supply chain issue? I think everyone here is dying to hear. We have listeners from everywhere. We have listeners from Canada, the US, New Zealand and Australia. I think the question that everyone is asking is, "Are we going through the same issues in different countries – New Zealand and Australia and North America as well?" How are you coping with those challenges when it comes to the supply chain issues?

Trevor Salter:

I guess forward planning was key for us and we knew this was going to be a problem quite a long time ago. My merchant has a sales rep who calls on me on a weekly basis and they keep us reasonably well informed, because our company generates a reasonable amount of income for them. They look after us quite well. They keep us informed as much as possible. What we have had to do in a lot of situations is look well into the future to plan timeframes when we would be ordering things. Then they will give us timelines on when they think we should be getting those in the system. This year in particular has been quite trying on our cashflow. Since the beginning of the year, we’ve spent over $250,000 on things that we have yet to put into our builds.

Bosco Anthony:

Forward buying is basically what you're doing?

Trevor Salter:

Yeah. We've got them, but we just can't put them into the bill because they haven't got to that stage.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Trevor Salter:

It was a combination of not only the supply, but things actually going up as well, the price increases.

Bosco Anthony:

You also have to mitigate and manage that risk that comes with forward buying. You know that the work is coming, but you also want to make sure that you have the storage for the supplies so that you can deliver on the work. That also takes a fine balance, which is pretty incredible to hear. You’re forward planning and bulk buying and having the relationships with the vendors so they can keep you informed. Do you feel like these are things that all builders should be thinking about, moving forward?

Trevor Salter:

Yeah. It's something we have been trying to instil in a lot of builders around here, because you don't want people panic buying. Obviously, if you plan well enough ahead, then you've got enough time to make it happen. But if you don't plan well enough and you leave it to the last minute, then the panic sets in and people make silly decisions and end up buying far too much because they think, "Well, if I can't get what I need, I'm going to make sure I can get as much as I can and hold onto it," which doesn't help anybody.

Bosco Anthony:

It's like the toilet paper effect during the pandemic when everyone was panic buying. 

Trevor Salter:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Bosco Anthony:

How is the industry in New Zealand embracing innovation, and what are some of the advancements or key advancements and trends you’re seeing in the market today when it comes to the residential construction? Also, with bespoke building, what are some of the areas that you are paying attention to, moving forward?

Trevor Salter:

Innovation in this industry is always evolving and it seems that as time goes on, we get more and more products and things that we can use. One of the key things that’s become almost mainstream here now is the use of waffle slab, concrete floor systems. They’re basically a raft system that sits on top of the ground, so there are no footings. This was brought about by the Canterbury earthquakes that we had several years ago, that became a very good area where engineers could study exactly what happened because we get earthquakes here on a regular basis. Building to survive earthquakes is a major component of what we do. That has changed the industry quite a lot in about the last five years. We’ve gone from digging foundations into the ground to basically now having the house just sitting on the ground. In an earthquake situation, it’s supposed to just ride the earthquake out a lot better and it can deal with it.

Trevor Salter:

Other innovations would be the use of solar power, especially here in Nelson. Many people are now putting solar panels on but still being plugged into the grid so that they've got the option to generate their own power. If they don't generate enough power, they can still draw from the national grid. That has a lot of implications for heating homes, because a lot of people go with an under-floor system and they can be quite expensive to run, but if you can set that up to solar, it’s much cheaper. This is one of the great things about the niche market we are in, because the people we're building for generally can afford to go for innovative ideas and innovative products that come along. We get to see some really cool stuff.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like it. I was looking at your website and echoing praises to the quality of the design work. You could really see the architecture and that bespoke lifestyle come to life with some of the visuals on your website. Trevor, just as a side note, with the supply chain, where do most of your resources come from? Is it the US? Is it Asia? Is it Australia? Do you find that geographically, are you having the same challenges with the same geographic areas?

Trevor Salter:

Yeah. With the supply chain here, a lot of stuff is manufactured in New Zealand, but we do actually source a lot of stuff from Australia. Generally, the stuff coming from Australia is not too hard to get, but it’s obviously got a lot harder than it has been in the past. You have a company in Australia called James Hardie that makes a wide range of fibre cement products. Now, if you want certain products like the linear weatherboard that they make, which is a fibre cement weather board, the delays for that now are six months. There's a fair bit of forward planning there to make sure that you do get those. 

Trevor Salter:

Another thing that's used here a lot is Canadian cedar. They import the sawn timber in big slabs and it's brought into the country and then it's actually seasoned outside here for six months before they turn it into the final product. Again, the delay on that is now six months as well. Generally, I think a lot of people are now turning to what is manufactured in New Zealand, knowing that we can get it sooner.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Trevor Salter:

We're lucky as far as timber goes. We grow a lot of timber here and as far as I'm aware, all of the timber we use in construction, apart from cedar and specialist products, is from here.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's switch to another hot topic. This is around the shortage of skilled workers. What are you doing to address this shortage in your industry, specifically with your company? Do you recognise it as an issue in New Zealand? What are you doing to try to overcome that?

Trevor Salter:

Shortage of labour has definitely been a hot topic lately, and we've been involved in a working group through the Registered Master Builders Association. Locally, I sit on the Master Builders’ Executive Team, and I’m currently the Vice President of the Nelson Tasman Master Builders. We did a working group with the training authority that trains apprentices, and they gave us an insight into the pipeline of work that's coming. It seems that most parts of the country are actually in a growth phase. 

Trevor Salter:

They've highlighted the lack of skilled workers. We've had three of these working groups. We've tried to identify how we are going to recruit all these people into the industry. We are looking at other areas that you wouldn't normally look at. One of the biggest untapped parts of the market is females, attracting females into the industry.

Trevor Salter:

We actually have a female apprentice of our own. We find that they're definitely up to the task. I guess it's a hard thing for some women to think, "I want to go into a male dominated industry." There's that approach – generally just trying to put it out there that even if you are say in your 30s or even your 40s and you’ve had enough of what you're doing, that it’s still not too late to retrain.

Bosco Anthony:

Right.

Trevor Salter:

But the opportunities are there.

Bosco Anthony:

That's a pretty inspiring thing to hear. You talk about having a female as an apprentice and this is something that we look at as legacy building. We're seeing a lot of different people and brands taking that initiative to introduce this workforce too, to all genders. How do you feel you are leaving a legacy for future builders? What are some of those successful milestones that you're really proud of over the last few years?

Trevor Salter:

The legacy I'd like to think that we are leaving is that I like to consider myself a leader, as opposed to a follower. One of the phrases we use is ‘we don't run with the herd’. We look to do things differently. Even my dealings with APB have allowed me to pass that information onto several people in the region here. I know there are several people here who have become members because of what I've passed on to them through my work with the Master Builders again, trying to mentor younger members. 

Trevor Salter:

Once somebody is accepted as a younger member, we actually spend some time with them and steer them in the direction of where they can get help. It's something I wish I’d had, someone who comes to you and says, "I can tell you what you need to know, if you are prepared to listen. If you want some help, there's help here. I know where I can steer you,” and they add direction as well.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. It's the power of mentorship, isn't it, when you have someone who can hold your hand and take you through those hard times. Here's a bit of a hard and personal question. What advice would you give a younger version of yourself getting into the industry today? You have this sage wisdom about what you do, and you've got quite the illustrious career. Looking back now, what advice would you give a younger version of yourself?

Trevor Salter:

Be careful what you wish for.

Bosco Anthony:

I was worried you were going to say that.

Trevor Salter:

I think as far as the building industry goes, you've really got to ask yourself quite a few questions and actually think it through, because once you set out down that road, you'll find yourself one day in a situation where you think, "This is not what I expected. This is not where I wanted to be." If I could give my younger version of myself the best advice, it would be, “Find yourself a mentor, find somebody who knows what they're talking about and learn as much from that person as possible.”

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you found that mentorship with APB, with Andy and the team. It sounds like there's been a lot that's been shared with you that you've managed to apply as well.

Trevor Salter:

Absolutely.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, Trevor, I could talk to you for hours on the industry, but I’ve saved my favourite question for last and this it right now. I'd love to hear your take of the industry, looking at it from a New Zealand perspective. What is the state of the residential construction industry in New Zealand and what is it evolving to, moving forward, in your opinion?

Trevor Salter:

The state of the residential building industry in New Zealand at the moment is at a level I've never seen before. What I mean by that is the demand. There is so much demand out there, especially here in the Nelson region. If you pick up a real estate magazine, the real estate section is minute. It's so thin. There are hardly any listings because people don't want to sell their houses, because they know there's nothing available. There are so many people looking to build; you look at certain subdivisions and the stages they haven't even developed have been pre-sold. People have signed up with a company that's going to build their house in two years’ time. We've never seen this before. It's because of the situation the world is in at the moment. I think that New Zealand is where a lot of people look at as a place to escape to.

Trevor Salter:

There are a lot of new Zealanders who are still trying to get home. It's a good time to be in the industry and I don't think we've ever been able to look so far into the future and understand that if you did want to get into it, then times are good and they're going to be good for quite a while, from what we believe.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, for our listeners out there, Trevor, any final words of wisdom or sage advice outside of ‘be careful what you wish for’? Is there anything you'd like to end our amazing interview with today, as far as intellectually stimulating our audience?

Trevor Salter:

I guess there's probably no way to sugar coat the fact that you have to work for it. You've got to work hard and you've got to put the time in. But if you do set out down that road with the right attitude, knowing that you have an end goal, then you can be extremely successful in this industry. My goals are to put us at the top of the industry and to make as much money as possible. It's not about making money at the expense of people, it's about making money in a way that helps all the people that we not only build for, but the people who work for us as well. 

Trevor Salter:

I've found as a business leader and an employer of quite a few people, that leadership is really important. If you can inspire people and get them to buy into your journey and the way of your whole culture of your business, you can actually project that moving forward and you can help them also be successful.

Trevor Salter:

I've found that with the people who work for me, I can give them opportunities that a lot of other employers won't, because I consider them to be my family. Every one of those people has a family that they have to support. I feel that the burden rides on my shoulders to make sure that everybody does well out of our business. I think embracing that type of attitude has helped massively. We've got extremely loyal staff and they're also amazingly talented people who I can delegate to. Probably the number one piece of advice I could give to anybody in the industry right now is, if you feel like you can't escape, you have to get yourself in a position where you can delegate. Delegation is what sets you free. I know that. I know that because I've been there.

Bosco Anthony:

What an amazing story of mentorship goals, mindset and just real forward planning and legacy planning as well on your part. Trevor, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate your time and insights today.

Trevor Salter:

Thank you very much, Bosco, for allowing me to share my story. Hopefully it will inspire somebody.