Episode 41: Learning New Skills With Sky Stephens

In episode 41 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, we’re joined by Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders Sky Stephens. Throughout this episode, we go over why it is so crucial to learn new skills when running a residential building company.

During this episode, Sky tackles the biggest challenge people face when learning new skills, as well as the barriers and common fears people need to overcome in order to learn new skills.

It’s common for people to fail at learning new skills, Sky addresses this fact, and how APB helps builders to reshape their mindset and overcome this barrier. Whether that be through the winning formula to succeed when learning new skills, or the winning habits that help builders transform.

Sky also covers the most common skills builders are interested in learning when joining APB, and the available resources they have in order to upskill.

Listen to the full episode to discover how to learn new skills that will elevate your building company.

 

Sky Stephens - Co-founder

Sky Stephens is a Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, a business coaching company dedicated to improving the residential construction industry for both builders and consumers. Sky is a proud member of The National Association of Women in Construction and she was also recognised as one of 2021’s Top 100 Women. 

Connect with Sky

 

Timeline

1:48 Why it is so crucial to learn new skills when running a residential building company.

4:09 The biggest challenge people face when learning new skills.

5:33 The barriers and common fears people need to overcome to learn new skills.

7:52 How APB helps builders to reshape their mindset.

9:26 Why people often fail at learning new skills.

12:19 The most common self identity concepts that builders battle every day.

17:36 The winning formula to succeed when learning new skills.

23:29 The winning habits that help builders transform.

29:06 The most common skills builders are interested in learning when joining APB.

31:32 The first signs of success when builders begin learning new skills.

35:48 The winning formula to mastering skills.

41:05 The role APB plays in skilling up professional builders.

44:20 How APB's Professional Builders Levels was born.

46:05 Available resources for builders wanting to upskill.

46:59 What Sky is currently upskilling on.

47:56 APB's culture of learning.

 

Links, Resources & More

Hierarchy Pyramid

Professional Builder Levels

APB Website

APB on Instagram

APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Sky Stephens:

If someone says, “I took a break,” we say, “You're already behind because some other people started learning.” 

Sky Stephens:

Everyone is busy. Every single person is busy.

Sky Stephens:

They would just say, "I can't do this. I'm just a builder."

Bosco Anthony:

Do I have a message that I can take to the world, and will they actually believe me?

Sky Stephens:

Mindset is such a big topic. It didn't just happen. We have to consciously plan it.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets Podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here, we discuss all things running a professional building company, from sales processes to financials, operations and marketing. 

Bosco Anthony:

I'm joined today by Co-founder Sky Stevens for APB. Sky, it's been a hot minute. Great to have you here on the podcast again.

Sky Stephens:

It has. How are you Bosco?

Bosco Anthony:

I'm doing well. I’m really excited to have you here and discuss about everything we want to do around how to learn new skills and upskill. Tell me a little bit about this; why is it so crucial today to prioritise learning new skills when it comes to running a residential building company?

Sky Stephens:

Well firstly, let's just get out of the way that learning is not a very sexy word to many people. It can sound super-boring, but it's absolutely critical to prioritise. Maybe if we even just call it ‘growing’. Learning is growing. And the reason why it's so critical is because everyone does know this deep down, but what got us to where we are today is not going to get us there, over the mountain or anywhere in the future, because too much has changed. Even look at what's changed in the last two years, let alone 10 years. It's a non-negotiable in this landscape, unfortunately.

Bosco Anthony:

What you're alluding to is how people have had to reinvent themselves and really dig deep and change things as well.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. I was talking to someone just the other day, and they were saying they're so exhausted, they're so burnt out. They just want to take a break. It was really interesting, because I was talking to someone, just a friend who works in businesses, so they don't own a business. They don't own a building company or anything. They work for other companies. They were saying, since COVID hit, especially when you're interviewing a lot of people, you see massive gaps in their resumes. The biggest question is “So, what were you doing in that period?” I get that the world completely changed. But even if something was out of your control and you were made redundant perhaps, there's a gap. What happened?

Sky Stephens:

If someone says, “I took a break,” we say, “You're already behind, because some other people started learning.” Unfortunately, doing nothing doesn't mean you stand still, it means you're actually moving behind everyone else, because everyone else is learning and moving forward and growing. I think that's exactly the same in the race of professional builders and owning a building company. Unfortunately, if you are not learning and you are not growing, others are. So you're not even standing still, you're just moving further behind.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, let's talk a little bit about the concept of being a student. Obviously, you are around so many businesses and builders; your network has grown significantly in the last few years. But when you talk about people growing and learning through these entities, what do you think is the biggest challenge that comes with acquiring new skills?

Sky Stephens:

I think every skill is learnable. We can see that. Our whole membership and every single one of our builders prove that. I think there are two big challenges that stop any one person from developing and learning a new skill. I think, first of all, it's discipline, because it doesn't just come, it's literally called learning a new skill. So it's the discipline to work at it, and actually just keep going and improving. But then on the flip side, it’s mindset. There are so many factors that can go into this, certainly your environment – and even how you were raised plays a big part in that.

Sky Stephens:

You can have a particular mindset, a fixed mindset. You might think, “I've never been good at this, so I'm not good at it.” That is such a barrier because every skill is learnable. If you just have the mindset of, “I can learn anything; it might take me a little bit longer than other people, but I can learn it.” Those two people are already so fundamentally different, and it's just because of how they see what's in front of them. The second one sees it as an opportunity rather than a challenge.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, you've piqued my curiosity here. So let's get into; what are some of those barriers that really challenge people? Are there common fears or excuses that you hear from the members and the builders around you when it comes to learning new skills?

Sky Stephens:

To talk about our members of APB, I would say they don't have too many excuses. Otherwise, they wouldn't join an organisation like APB. It's a coaching organisation, so we're coaching our members on improving their systems, their processes, their mindset, anything. So I think there's a very particular type of person and building company owner who is drawn to what we do. So maybe if we talk as a whole, I think professional builders are looking for growth and trying to improve. So there aren't too many excuses. They get left at the door.

Sky Stephens:

But if you look at other builders or very average builders, or builders who just aren't there yet – because again, you can change – it's more their mindset and their belief in themselves, that they can even do it. I think that's probably the biggest excuse deep down. Maybe it's just that we kid ourselves and we bring our other excuses, like we're too busy. “I'm too busy to learn a new skill. I don't have time.” Or, “There's just too much going on in my life. Maybe I'll have more time next year.” They are the excuses. But I think deep down, it's that self-concept maybe. It's not really thinking they can do it, and I think we always want to avoid failure.

Sky Stephens:

You hear a lot of people say this, “I don't like things that I'm not really good at.” I think we've all said that at some point as well. I'm sure you've said it, I've said it. We like being good at things. So, when you try something you're not immediately good at it, it's not as much fun, but you’ve just got to have that mindset of, “All right, well, let's get good at it. It's okay. Nothing bad will happen. I'm just going to get better.”

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. I think I enjoy reflecting back on things that I've practised and become better at over time. Right? You look back and think, “Yeah. I remember the time when I used to do this in this way, and it's been a while since things have changed.”

Sky Stephens:

It becomes such a good story as well. How boring would life be if everyone was just really good at everything they picked up?

Bosco Anthony:

That's true. There's no diversity at that point. So, it sounds like you help navigate people through the coaching program. APB really helps take people through these thought processes and helps them become more disciplined and reshape their mindset. That's what I'm getting from what you're telling me right now.

Sky Stephens:

It's certainly a lot of what we do at a base level. It's, “Here's all the gear. Here's everything you need to deploy into a building company and here's training on how to implement it.” We do have mindset trainings and time management and efficiency trainings. Sure. But the training's already there. It's very much a self-journey for every single individual who comes into contact with what we teach. They are learning and developing. We can't do anything for anybody, so it's very much them taking control of it themselves. It's definitely that growth mindset of, “I can do it. It might just take me a bit longer, but I certainly can learn it, and I'll figure it out,” compared to, “Oh, I definitely can't.” Because if you have that mindset, you're not really involved in any kind of coaching or learning to begin with.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. So Sky look, I've been through your backend coaching program. It is phenomenal. There's so much to learn from. There's so much skills training that you offer there. I picked up on something really quickly, that builders need to make the time for this, because you have all the resources available to your members. I was in awe of the level of detail that you provide for all your builders. Now, before we get into exploring how to learn new skills, I want to ask a really important question. And that is, what is likely to cause more people to fail? It's a bit of a sensitive subject for some people, because it's going to trigger some points. But in your opinion, what do you feel causes people to fail?

Sky Stephens:

Obviously, a lot of things. So, my answer may sound very oversimplified, but if I were to pick one thing, it’s certainly based on the hundreds of builders who have come into our programs. We're actively working with over 500 building company owners at the moment. So genuinely, just from the builders who we've seen and have been coaching, I'd probably say self-sabotage. Brian Tracy talks a lot about this in his books and his presentations, and he talks a lot about this from a sales perspective; he talks about self-concept.

Sky Stephens:

Self-concept is the way you see yourself and the way you think about yourself in every area of your life. If we do not believe we can do something, it’s mindset again If we do not believe we can do something, we can start self-sabotaging ourselves so that we never achieve that. This is why, certainly in our private program as well, when anyone works with us one-on-one, mindset is such a big topic because we need to just dispel a few myths or lies they've told themselves even before we get started.

Sky Stephens:

Unless you truly believe that you can run a building company doing $10 million, $20 million, it doesn't even matter how big or small you want it to be, unless you truly believe you can be that building company owner, the owner of a building company of that size, making a certain amount of net profit, you will never be able to get there. You will start to self-sabotage either by not making time to learn, making silly mistakes because you probably should have learnt this skill to get there, but you didn't because you quite simply do not see yourself as that. So, I think self-sabotage is a big reason why people can fail, but it's because of their self-concept. 

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. I love that you mentioned the self lies we tell ourselves. I remember when I first started speaking, one of my biggest lies was from going through this imposter syndrome. “Do I have a message that I can take to the world, and will they actually believe me when I present it on stage?” I remember when I was doing my TEDx Talk preparation, which took tons of hours to prepare, I remember that was the most important part that I was battling with when I first started going into this. 

Bosco Anthony:

I'm just curious, it sounds like we're not just dealing with mindset. We're talking about people's self-identity and self-worth. Does education play a part with builders? Does the question, “Am I a good business person or a leader?” I'm just curious, when we look into the business owners who you're working with, what are some of the most common self-identity concepts that they're battling with every day?

Sky Stephens:

What's really interesting is that there are going to be different things said, depending on who we're talking to, but a very big portion of builders we work with say, “I can’t do this. I’m just a builder.” That’s especially common if the builder’s followed the very typical route where they had an apprenticeship, or were essentially a trades person, then progressed to running a carpentry team, and then eventually to setting up their own building company, they weren't just subcontracting to other builders. That's a very typical or generalised journey that so many building company owners have gone through. I recall hearing this on the phone so many times; they would just say, "I can't do this. I'm just a builder."

Sky Stephens:

That is so interesting because we believe at APB, as a builder you're doing one of the most complex jobs on the planet, and to devalue yourself in that statement, “I'm just a builder,” we don't stand for it. We don't accept it. We'll say, “What you are doing is actually incredible. You are bringing together hundreds of materials and people and scheduling it together to build an entire structure for somebody else. You're not only doing one of them, but you're also doing multiple at a time and a lot in a year.” So, that's actually incredibly difficult work. It's those statements that are really insightful because it shows that self-concept, “I'm just a builder.” You're so much more than that.

Sky Stephens:

Our builders are building homes for some really successful people. Think of the really massive luxury homes that are getting built, or even those built for anyone who can afford to build a home, let’s be honest. You are just as much a professional as they are. It’s that self-concept. I think we can fully see this transformation in our members and our clients when they're growing into becoming professional builders. “I have grown, I've developed, I've learnt leadership skills and financial management, and I can run this business so much better.” They transform from the statement, “I'm just a builder,” to “No, I'm a businessman now.” You actually change your entire status. And that's when you just fully shatter that glass ceiling of limited self-belief.

Bosco Anthony:

It's so true because even with the builders I've interviewed and have the pleasure of interviewing for this podcast, they've hit a level of confidence and they really believe in themselves. I hear the words, “I'm worthy,” through how they present themselves and they love what they do. 

Bosco Anthony:

You've got so many great stories. I remember the story of Ty coming to mind. When we were interviewing him, he said to me that he suffered with dyslexia, but he really just transformed his business. He looked at that, and really just made something of it. It was really inspiring for that interview as well. You've got owners who didn't do much schooling and have still built successful building companies. Education was something that they really were worried about when they first got into it. So it's amazing to see these stories that come out of the membership too.

Sky Stephens:

So beyond inspiring. Ty's such a good example of that because it was all mindset. His attitude was, “Okay, that's not going to hold me back.” I have to say as well, a lot of building company owners – we're talking about a majority here – went through that path of being the trades and the skills and have moved up to being building company owners. I've also spoken with a lot of building company owners who actually have come from engineering backgrounds, who have come from the ‘professional’ backgrounds; they even have degrees. It doesn't necessarily help you in the running of a building company. 

Sky Stephens:

As long as you have the right mindset to open up and learn that no matter what your background, if you left school early to pick up this trade versus you finished school and even went to university to get an engineering degree, you can still have exactly the same building company, exactly the same profitability, because there are different skills you need to learn to get to that place. It's 100 percent possible.

Sky Stephens:

Just going back to what you said before, it's a complete mindset shift. You said you can see it in our builders. They're just thinking, “I'm worthy.” You can totally see that because when you learn these new skills and when you learn about your whole building company and how to manage it and your financials, and you really see that growth and you are that building company owner, you're not going to settle for lower than the benchmark of net profit. You really see that, “No, we've earnt it. We're professionals. We are not going to make any less than this net profit. The contract's not worth it to us.” That's a big shift that happens.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, let's get into the secrets of success. Obviously, success emulates success; it mirrors success. People are driven and inspired by success. Is there a winning formula and process to learn new skills? Is it time? Is it energy? What percentage of that goes into the field of learning and growing new skills? Or is there something that you would guide people on when it comes to that formula of learning new things?

Sky Stephens:

I don't know if you could put this as a full-on step-by-step formula for learning new skills. This might be a little bit softer as an answer than you might be trying to get. But I think taking a complete step back is the most important thing, because you need to first understand: “What is the end goal? What am I trying to achieve?” You can see some people who are just addicted to learning. Some people have never really gone out into the world because they've done all these degrees, and then masters, and then maybe PhDs and even more, but they're just addicted to studying and learning. Knowledge is great, but it's futile if you don't do anything with it.

Sky Stephens:

Before we even think about learning a new skill, I think it's really important – and it’s what we recommend – to take a full step back and think, “Well, what is the end goal? What am I actually trying to achieve here?” It's almost like that whole start with ‘why’ concept. I know Simon Sinek’s next book is coming from a different perspective, but I think it's quite valid here: Start with Why. What are you actually trying to achieve and why are you doing this? Because then you can find that real reason as to why you do it because it's very easy to quit learning or quit doing something if there's no real emotional why behind it. But if you know where you're trying to go, you can persevere through learning this skill, because you know what the outcome is going to be. So I think that's really important.

Sky Stephens:

Otherwise, you can get started in any program, but take ours for example, in membership, there's all these courses available and you think, “Right, I'm going to learn.” You just start going through the courses one by one. That's completely futile. You need a plan. What is the plan? What are you trying to achieve right now? You need to learn that specific skill.

Sky Stephens:

But then secondly, in terms of a plan, once you understand what the end goal is and why you're trying to do it, I think you really need to give yourself permission to learn. By permission, I just mean scheduling it in. Because unless it's in your calendar, unless it's something you have scheduled in advance to do and commit to, it's very easy for it to get pushed to the side. You've got all these other priorities screaming at you, waving at you throughout the day. Everyone's busy, every single person is busy, but the most successful people know how to prioritise. If you know that learning that new skill, reaching that end goal is so important, that becomes a priority.

Sky Stephens:

Giving yourself permission to learn it – that is, scheduling regular time into your day to work on it, learn it and then implement it, and then refine it and make it better, that will give you success because you're actually doing it. Learning's one thing, implementing is another. So with learning, what is the end goal? Having permission to learn it, scheduling it in, and then really making that roadmap. “How am I going to do this?” It's business planning, essentially. “What's my 10-year goal? My three-year goal? My one-year goal? What do I need to do in 90 days?” It's all getting broken down. It's the same with learning a new skill. Otherwise, it's just a big mountain and you have no idea where all your base camps are.

Bosco Anthony:

I really resonate with the permission to learn. When I was going through the learning hub for APB, it really just came down to setting the right time. For me, it was early in the morning, having a cup of tea and just putting in the one hour to go through it, because there was so much content there and no distractions. I put my phone away. Knowing my environment was so important. 

Bosco Anthony:

Someone asked me, "What do you do when you prepare for a TED Talk?" I said, for me, it was two showers a day. Everyone looked at me. “What do you mean by that?” I said, well typically, I rehearsed in the shower. Now that also resulted in a very expensive water bill. But essentially, I practised my delivery lines in the shower, morning and evening for three months. So, I really resonate with what you just said there, about giving yourself permission to learn. It really hits home because most of the time it's the procrastination that prevents us from learning.

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. And I think just hammering that point home, everyone is busy. Every single person is busy. But the people who make leaps and bounds have prioritised it. It didn't just happen. They weren't just saying, “You know what? Once X, Y, Z is finished, I'm going to have more time.” Because life just doesn't work out like that. To actually even begin to learn something new, you have to make time to prioritise it. People say this all the time. You see amazing musicians, who are a really good example. “Oh, you're so lucky. You're so good at violin. I wish I could be that good.” They say, “I practise a million hours every single week.” “Oh, but you're so lucky. I wish I could play like that. You've got a natural talent.” And they're just sitting there thinking, “My fingers are bleeding. I'm practising every single day.”

Sky Stephens:

That's exactly the same thing. “I wish we could have a building company that's successful or have more people on our team to take the workload off.” It doesn't just happen. You have to consciously plan it. Even to get to whatever goal you have, you have to learn something new. You have to be open-minded enough to know that what's got you to where you are today isn't going to get you to where you want to be in the future. So, you have to learn something new. What is your goal? What is the end goal you’re trying to achieve? Then what do you need to learn to get there? When can you learn it? Schedule it in. Where are your deadlines? That is how you can get the ball rolling. Otherwise, it's always just a thought and an idea.

Bosco Anthony:

Right. So what are some of those winning habits that you try to instil into builders who work with you, when they come in? How do you transform them through those winning habits too?

Sky Stephens:

Winning habits are firstly, scheduling it in; that's a really easy answer there. But going a little bit deeper, definitely having an open mind. That's definitely a habit we teach at APB. Avoid learning specific processes and specific tactics without having a really good foundation because, and this is quite common, you can sit there thinking, “All right, I know I need to get better at my marketing. So I'm going to learn all about Facebook ads.” That's a skill that's really specific. That's a really specific thing to start learning, but unless you have any kind of foundation, it's so futile, it's just going to fall over at the first obstacle. 

Sky Stephens:

We talk about a pyramid in our mindset training. At the very bottom of this pyramid is self-awareness, which is essentially mindset. It’s important to be aware of your thought patterns, because when you are so self-aware, you can catch yourself in that negative talk. You could go into that Facebook ads training, and you could hear something that makes you think, “I don't know how to do that.” Or, “I'm not really good at copywriting.” If you have good self-awareness, you can catch that negative self-talk and you can have a way better foundation, which will help you learn a lot better.

Sky Stephens:

The next layer up from that in the pyramid is some good mental cognition. That's literally your ability to prioritise. It’s having the ability to do some strategic planning, strategic thinking and to solve problems. It's developing your mind in such a way that when you encounter a roadblock, you think of a solution, not an excuse why you couldn't do it. This is how you can acquire and understand new information.

Sky Stephens:

Then in the layer up from that, we talk about business principles, and this is what's going to guide you. These are things like your values. What are the company's core values? What are the priorities in the building company? These are the principles of where are you trying to get to, because the tactic that you

had just thought you might want to learn might not even align to that just yet. If you are self-aware, you can catching yourself when your thought patterns don’t align with your belief systems and your whole self-concept. Then you have the ability to prioritise because you've worked on that and your ability to solve problems and think a few steps ahead. Then you need to think about the business as a whole; where are you actually trying to go with this? What's your mission? What's your purpose? What's the whole objective for the building company? Then you can get into business disciplines.

Sky Stephens:

This is how you learn about understanding construction financials, as a whole. You want to understand the financials in your building company, and you're well rounded enough to understand, “All right, I understand how marketing a building company works. I understand big picture construction financials.” Once you've built that, then you can go really deep on a tactic like Facebook ads. But because there are so many different tactics you can learn, if you just start picking and choosing each one of those tactics, it's just going to fall down because you have no foundation, you have no real ability to learn or grow or problem solve. When you run into a problem, can you even push through? Typically you don't if you don't have those foundations in place.

Bosco Anthony:

It's almost like a funnel process. You've got the self-awareness and the mental cognition, which is that identity process. Then you go into the business principles, the disciplines, and then you get into the actual tactic. So it's actually a reverse way of doing it because most people make the mistake of just going directly to the tactic. There's a lot more that you have to do to get there.

Sky Stephens:

This is why, again, so many people can fail at learning new skills. Facebook ads is a really good example, because if you just go straight to that tactic, if you don't have a bigger understanding of even just one layer down, marketing as a whole, well, the ad's probably not going to be successful because you haven't learnt about your messaging and your building company and where you are going with it. 

Sky Stephens:

The whole point of it is, are you trying to just generate awareness here? Or are you trying to actually generate some leads? What's your entire sales process? You're too granular. You need to understand the building company as a whole. To even understand the building company as a whole, you need to attack and fix up your self-concept, so that you don't get to the stage where you are self-sabotaging. Because then you'll never be able to learn anything; a little roadblock and it could be a very vicious cycle if you let it.

Bosco Anthony:

It's really about re-crafting your perception of learning. That's what I'm getting from this. It's just understanding a deeper layer to the regular side of things as well.

Sky Stephens:

Definitely. Yeah. There's always way more to it.

Bosco Anthony:

Are there any popular topics of interest from the builders? I'm just curious because I've seen the learning hub and there's so much, it blew my mind. I thought, “Oh, my God. You have spent literally hours and hours. It's almost like a Netflix channel for training, for builders.” We'll call it the Netflix for builders. What are some of the most common topics, or what are some of the most common skills that builders are so interested in first, when they come into the membership and they want to really perfect? Where do they struggle the most, to begin with?

Sky Stephens:

I think a lot of builders are drawn to APB for the financial management side. Certainly the tools, the calculators we have, the work in progress accounting adjustment. We've talked about that in an episode, we've talked about construction slots and properly planning your availability. I'm pretty sure we've talked about how to price your jobs and net margins. So, I think a lot of builders are very much drawn to us because it's very much based on data, a lot of financials. Even if they end up going through any one of those courses first, it's a very specific tactic. Everyone does gravitate to our time management and efficiency training, because you get to the point where you can do one action plan, and then you have to implement it. You realise, “I'm not sure if I can fit this in.” Everyone is busy when they join APB. 

Sky Stephens:

For the builders who join us, versus the builders who don't, it's not as if one of them just has more time. Everyone's busy, but they've prioritised it. They've given themselves permission to prioritise it, schedule it in, even if it's only a couple of hours a week initially. Because they're all busy, even if they complete a different module first, they all then get drawn to how to manage their time and efficiency training that we have.

Sky Stephens:

It's a very simple way of just removing as many things as possible from your plate that you do not need to do. It's essentially training on prioritising, your hourly rate, asking what you should be doing and what you should be completely removing, delegating or automating. I would probably say that training in itself is so important because it's relevant for every single building company owner, no matter what problem it is you're trying to solve. Maybe it's not financials, maybe it's marketing, maybe it's a sales problem. Maybe it's the leadership skills. That time and efficiency training tends to draw everybody in, because that's one thing everyone can do better and always just try and learn.

Bosco Anthony:

We've talked a little bit about some of the builders who have actually overcome some of their challenges and barriers to have some success stories. But how does APB measure success with the builders who you work with? How do you help them create that success and establish that accountability? There's so much that comes out of this program, but what's the first sign that you're seeing success with a builder?

Sky Stephens:

That's a really good question. I actually recall one of our coaches, Clint, who was asked in a podcast a question, “How do you get success for the builders?” I loved his answer. He said, “First of all, I don't do anything. It's all our builders. We are literally just here to guide them in the right direction. But they are the ones putting in all the work, getting it done, prioritising it, scheduling it, implementing it and then optimising it.” So it's very much that we are the support system. We are here. We can guide all of our builders to what can help them. When it comes to seeing them actually implement it, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So, there quite literally is only so much we can do, but we do as much as we possibly can, even in our private program, there's so much accountability.

Sky Stephens:

To see a builder's success, it's all them. When you see them go through their first action plan and implement it and get that win, we are really big on celebrations. We talk about celebrating the wins. It's a company core value we have in our private group. It's hashtag celebrate the wins, so you can find everyone's wins. It's “Let's just celebrate.” It could be massive, or it could just be, “You know what? I didn't have to do the qualifying phone calls. I've systemised that part of the building company. So now for anyone who calls in, a receptionist can take that first phone call and do the qualification. That has saved me two hours every single week.” Then they put those two hours into training. It's hearing it back because they were able to implement something. Learning is great, but unless you do anything with it, it's completely futile.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. I think the common identity that I've seen with your success stories – because I have interviewed so many different builders from different parts of the world – the most common fabric that I see is the level of calmness. Even though there's chaos in business every day, it's this level of organised chaos and calmness, and there isn't that frantic entity because they trust in the people, they trust in the systems, they trust in what they've built. 

Bosco Anthony:

It was interesting when we had our first Canadian builder on our last season, and they were so honest and they said, “We're building a growing business, but we still need more staff. We know this, but we're not worried about it because we know what the problems are, and we know how to overcome them.” It was so humbling to hear someone say, “Success is continuous. It's not just we've hit this milestone, and we're there.” That was really inspiring to hear.

Sky Stephens:

The second everything is out of your head and into a plan, and you know you are just working a plan, that is a lot more relaxing to know. There's still that drive. There are going to be day-to-day things, and we all have our own lives that are happening. But my goodness, having the plan in front of you and then suddenly you just know you're working the plan makes things so much easier. 

Sky Stephens:

I think quarterly strategic planning, like company planning, learning new skills, as soon as you give yourself permission to do them, it's like a budget, when you do the forecast for your building company. We've talked about this in a marketing and advertising episode. As soon as you have a budget in place for your handovers, for your advertising spend, it's like permission to spend it. Whereas if you didn't have that, you're constantly questioning, should I spend it or should I not?

Sky Stephens:

So, give yourself permission to not only have those budgets in place, so you can do a proper handover process, you can spend money on advertising, give yourself permission and time for learning and implementation of new skills.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's talk a little bit about mastery, shall we? Obviously at APB you have different layers of mentorship and builders start to progress as well with their skill sets. How do you know when your builders are starting to go from one level to the other? Professionals say you've got to put 10,000 hours in your industry to become an expert. Is there a magic formula for mastery? Is it based on a sign? Is it based on numbers? Where do you look for mastery when it comes to professional builders?

Sky Stephens:

I'm not sure about the mastery question, because I think for a lot of people who have hit mastery, it's because they've been publicly recognised for it as well. It's winning awards or winning championships, and winning gold medals. If we try to relate it to running a building company, how do you know you're improving? 

Sky Stephens:

We put something in place so that we could really make sure every single building company was set up for success and just rock solid. We call them the professional builder levels. You can actually see them on the website. We'll add a link in the show notes to it. I think that'd be really helpful. We call them professional builder levels. It's set up in such a way that there are 10 levels, and then you get to being a completely certified professional builder when you've achieved every single one of these. You can unlock the next level once you've achieved the one before, essentially.

Sky Stephens:

The first level is calculating your work in progress accounting adjustment every single month. You're on level one, once you've done it three months in a row, because that is fundamental to running a building company.

Sky Stephens:

Now, maybe you are hitting the industry benchmarks for gross margins. You're a lot higher than that in a level, but unless you are calculating your work in progress accounting adjustment, you will always be seen as a level one builder because it's so fundamental. 

Sky Stephens:

It was so beautiful for us to implement the professional builder levels, because it really allowed us to see that perhaps there's a $20 million building company making great gross profit and net profit. But if they're not calculating work in progress, they are truly no better off than a much smaller building company that's maybe not quite hitting the benchmarks, but they are all over that liability. It really allowed us to see, “Okay, what are the most important things we then need to work on and coach on?” It really brought back and grounded a lot of the builders we were working with to make them realise, “No, this is actually the most important thing.”

Sky Stephens:

That's a really easy way for us to measure any of our builders' success, when we can see those level ascensions. We track those level ascensions on all of our private clients. Any member can do it personally themselves, because with all these levels, any builder can see where they’re up to. You can go on our website and see the professional builder levels and just really see where you fit and stand. It's a very easy roadmap to consider, “Okay, how am I going to get there? 

Sky Stephens:

The next level is three to six months of your fixed expenses as working capital. “Okay, well, how am I going to get there? All right, I need to really look at my construction funnel, and look at how many sales I need to get – and what are my margins? You don't take all the money out of the company,” and so on. You get to make your plan from that level, based on where you are at. That’s a really easy way for us to see that success.

Sky Stephens:

Another way is, certainly when we work with builders in our private program, they're not staying for just a couple of months. When we work with a building company, we're working with them for years. The reason is because maybe you focus on implementation, and you get it all done really quickly. Maybe it only takes you 12 months. Maybe it's 12 to 18 months. You're not done, because once you're focused on implementation, you need to go redo everything, because now your focus is optimisation. We're really big on progress, not perfection. If you were striving for perfection you might identify with this quote I saw the other day: "Perfection is just another word for procrastination.”

Bosco Anthony:

Actually, that's a pretty good way of looking at it.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. It will never allow you to move on, or get better, or do anything else, let's be honest, because you are just trying to be perfect in that one thing. Whereas no, if you could just focus on implementation of everything you need to do in the next 12 months, you know you get to circle back and optimise it. Because, let's be honest, nothing is ever finished. Ever.

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. I think you could ask anyone out there, or you could look at some of the secret confessions that we have to ourselves about, “How do we grow?” A lot of it really just comes down to making time for it, because when we talk about successes and failures of growing, and I look back at my career as well, everything I've made time for, every single thing I've made time for, I've developed some really strong skills around it. But it really just required me taking that first step and then having the discipline of prioritising it every single time. So I really resonate with that quote as well.

Sky Stephens:

Not just to throw another quote at you, but you’d know this quote, “The secret to success lies in your daily routine.”

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah.

Sky Stephens:

It’s because that’s where your time is going. If you can see in your daily routine that there’s just wasted time somewhere, fix that and direct that energy somewhere else; that can take you further.

Bosco Anthony:

So how do you feel about the pursuit of excellence? We’ve talked a little bit about the habits. We’ve talked a little bit about making the time for it, but how do you really level up? How do you get your builders to really level up when it comes to the coaching program, on top of the personal practices that go with it?

Sky Stephens:

Accountability helps, but only to an extent. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So, it really comes down to individuals. Once again, if you’re drawn to something like APB and what we do here, you’re looking for change. You have a growth mindset; you are looking to take your building company to the next level. You are incredibly busy already, but you are willing to make a sacrifice somewhere, so that you can make your one-year goal, or whatever it ends up being. So what fuels mastery, your question there, is time. You just have to make time for it. And it just keeps circling back; give yourself permission.

Sky Stephens:

I think that’s the biggest barrier, because everyone, this year, last year, 10 years ago is the busiest they have ever been. You’re never going to get less busy. So you just give yourself permission. And you know what? Everyone has a different number of hours. Someone’s hours can be very different to the number of hours you have in a week, because they have more people to delegate to. So they can get a multiplication factor. Maybe you don’t have that just yet, and so we’ve been very open about this. I remember in a blog article we wrote years ago, we recommended okay, work longer hours. It’s not a long-term solution, but it’s really the only thing you can do short-term, to then create more time for yourself later on. So give yourself permission to do it, and schedule it in.

Sky Stephens:

Honestly, it’s amazing the things that can happen from just two hours per week with focused work, working on the building company, learning a new skill and then implementing it. Learning's one thing but implementing is the most important. So, just two hours a week, maybe it's a two-hour block on a Saturday morning. And I know a lot of people that have just said, “Oh no, no, that's family time. That's non-negotiable.” Well, it's just short-term. It might not be forever, but I don't know how we can expect to get so much further ahead if we're not going to find that time anywhere else.

Sky Stephens:

If you really don't want to do it later on Friday night, or Wednesday night, or Monday night, get up earlier in the morning. You have to find that time, but amazing things can happen and use that compound effect. Two hours every single week. Maybe you can only do an hour, but then it goes to two. Maybe it goes to three. Maybe it then goes to five, because you do a one hour sprint every single day of the week, when you're at work. Amazing things can happen.

Bosco Anthony:

You talked a little bit about the tier side of things as well. Obviously, the coaching program has grown. There are so many members now from different parts of the world. Where did you find the inspiration to tier up the levels? Was it through what you were seeing with what people were overcoming? How many layers are there and where can builders find this information about how they go from one stage to the other as well, when it comes to the levels of building?

Sky Stephens:

So you mean the professional builder levels? How did we create them?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. I'm just curious, did it come from the front lines? Did it come from a vision that you had? Where did the inspiration start?

Sky Stephens:

Honestly, it was so that we could have a way of levelling the playing field for every single building company because it didn't depend on revenue or how many employees were there, or even the location you are based in. These are all 10 fundamentals to running a professional and profitable building company. We just needed a way of really levelling it out for every single one of our clients, and for every single builder out there. It's not based on revenue; it's on percentages. It's on running a professional building company. So that was the main reason and need for it.

Sky Stephens:

Then I think I said, implementing it and actually seeing people realise and be taken aback because they thought they had a much more successful building company. But because they would not calculate the work in progress accounting adjustment, and because they didn't implement it into their financial reports, their building company was based on really rubbish data. They were really able to take a step back and actually realise how important it was. Then they just got so much pride, and then ascending a level, and just getting better, and better, and better because it was that confidence of, “Okay, I am doing the right thing.”

Sky Stephens:

All it is, is a plan, right? It's just a guided roadmap, and here's the next step. And here's the step after that. It just gives people confidence in where to go next, what the next goal is, because it's very easy to get a bit lost. We've got personal goals, but where should the company be going? Is it aligned?

Bosco Anthony:

Sky, we've covered so much. You've talked about this full stack mindset, cheat sheet as well. Is there a place where we can get this information because there are so many levels of theory that you've covered today? Where can our listeners get some of this information about up-skilling?

Sky Stephens:

I'll see if I can pop in a link to that pyramid that I just talked about. It'll just be a one page, just so you can visually see what I was trying to explain. I'll pop it in the show notes. But of course, a full training on it is available to all of our members. If you're a private client, there's a lot more trainings on mindset, just to dispel some of your self-concept and think a bit bigger. We put out so much information on our blog as well. So if you're not a member, you can definitely get a lot of information from there and obviously from regular podcast episodes also.

Bosco Anthony:

That's awesome. My final question for you; a bit of a curve ball. You talked a lot about the art of practice. You talked a lot about what you make time for. What are you making time for today, either professionally or personally? And what are you fuelling as far as your curiosity when it comes to the skills that interest you today? Where are you spending your time in the last few weeks?

Sky Stephens:

Me personally? Or for the company?

Bosco Anthony:

Yeah. Yeah.

Sky Stephens:

Oh, wow. Okay. Well what I'm learning at the moment, all the books I've read in the last couple of weeks are on leadership.

Bosco Anthony:

Okay.

Sky Stephens:

It’s because our team is growing, and learning is such a big thing for our entire team. It's a culture of learning. We teach learning, so we roll this out to clients. So, in our team, it's that weekly learning time. This is built into everyone's calendar because we have to learn. We have to get better. So what I'm learning is leadership. The books that I've been reading have included a lot of John Maxwell. He wrote great books and has lots of podcasts. So, that's my main focus at the moment.

Bosco Anthony:

How much time does everyone at APB spend on learning? It sounds like it's part of the culture as well, because everything you know is about developing and learning new things. It sounds like you guys really inspire this with everyone who works with APB.

Sky Stephens:

Well, it's a two-hour block in the working week.

Bosco Anthony:

Okay.

Sky Stephens:

That's actually scheduled in. However, everyone has book lists, and you can't achieve the book list just by doing it two hours at work. There's a lot of reading done outside of work, so we provide books and audio book logins, and we literally have dozens of books available for the team. This is a really big point as well. That's just what we do in our company. This is what every company should be doing. This is what we want to see building companies do as well. As the leader of a building company, you want to be up-skilling yourself, but roll this out to your teams also. This is why it’s important to invest in assets like books for the company; give them to the leadership team in your building company. Swap books, talk ideas. If you see a great podcast episode, share it with your team and discuss it, because we all need to grow.

Sky Stephens:

It's not just down to the leader of the building company to grow. I read a book a while ago, a John Maxwell book called The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. One of the laws was the law of the lid. It's talking about how, say if your skill level as a leader is five out of ten, you can only lead fours, maybe another five, but mainly fours and threes. So, if I want to get people on my team who are eight out of ten or nine out of ten, I need to be a nine or a ten to get there.

Sky Stephens:

So, we have to grow. What you'll find is, as a building company owner, as you are growing, maybe the people on your team aren't growing as quickly. That's okay. It just means you've outgrown them. So that you can get other people on your team as you grow, and you become an eight. You can get some sevens, you become a nine, you can get some eights, maybe a nine, and you can get to a ten.

Sky Stephens:

I really enjoyed that concept because the whole point is to grow. You want your team to grow with you, but they have to do what you're doing. They have to put the effort in also, and if they're not interested, they don't want to, it's okay. You can set them free to do what they want to do, but it's not going to stand in your culture. If you build that as a culture, they're not going to come with you on that journey.

Bosco Anthony:

That's a really good way of putting it too. Good framework too. Well, Sky, it's been a pleasure as always. Thank you for inspiring a culture of learning and sharing it with our listeners today as well. And thank you for being here.

Sky Stephens:

That's okay. Hopefully I made it sound a little bit more interesting than the word ‘learning’.

Bosco Anthony:

Absolutely. I think you are going to have a ton of resources from this interview, as well.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. Well, it was awesome. So, thank you. Thanks for today, Bosco.

Bosco Anthony:

Cheers.

Bosco Anthony:

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at APB can help you grow your building company, visit associationofprofessionalbuilders.com. See you next time.