Episode 11: The New Marketing Process For Builders With Russ, Sky and Andy

In this episode of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, our host, Bosco Anthony is joined by Co-founders of the Association of Professional Builders Russ Stephens and Sky Stephens, along with APB’s Head Coach, Andy Skarda. Throughout this episode, the trio reveal the new marketing process for builders. 

The Association of Professional Builders is a business coaching company that helps residential home builders across the globe systemise their building companies. Specialised coaching on sales, marketing, financials, business operations and even personal development in order to operate a true professional building company.

During episode 11 of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, Russ, Sky and Andy discuss how marketing in the construction industry has evolved over time and the strategies that builders need to be implementing today to be successful.

Marketing for a building company doesn’t look the same as it once did. Builders need to be keeping up to date with the proven marketing tactics that are working for thousands of building companies around the world. The team behind this podcast episode share the secrets to builder’s marketing that can be implemented instantly. 

Tune in to the full episode to hear the APB trio uncover the new marketing process that can help you grow your building company safely and securely. 

Russ Stephens - Co-founder

Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, Russ is a data analysis expert who has introduced data-driven decision making to the residential construction industry. Russ is also a proud member of the Forbes Business Development Council.

Connect with Russ

Sky Stephens - Co-founder

Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, Sky specialises in taking complex business strategies and converting them into actionable step-by-step guides for building company owners. Sky is also a proud member of The National Association of Women in Construction and the Top 100 Women in the broader construction sector.

Connect with Sky

Andy Skarda - Head Coach 

Head Coach at the Association of Professional Builders, Andy specialises in helping business owners in the building industry identify and implement the skills and systems they need to be successful, without needing to go back to school. Or more importantly, without going bust.

Connect with Andy

 

Timeline

1:07 How has construction marketing evolved? 

4:42 Why you should be giving away your most valuable information. 

6:50 Why builders need to become storytellers. 

15:24 Marketing metrics you should NOT be monitoring.

17:03 Why builders need to adapt to the new age of marketing. 

23:37 Why old school advertising doesn’t work anymore. 

25:52 How marketing will impact a building company.

33:07 How to start creating content for your marketing.

35:27 How to stand out in your marketing.

41:07 Marketing trends that actually work.

44:48 What successful marketing looks like.

48:19 What builders MUST avoid to ensure their marketing succeeds. 

Links, Resources & More

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APB Website
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APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets Podcast, a podcast by the Association of Professional Builders (APB) for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes, financials, operations and marketing.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome. Today I'm joined by Co-founders Sky and Russ Stephens, as well as Andy Skarda, Head Coach for APB. Welcome everybody. I’m excited to be speaking to you all today.

Sky Stephens:

Hey, Bosco.

Russ Stephens:

Hey, Bosco.

Andy Skarda:

Hey, Bosco. Good to see you.

Bosco Anthony:

Good to see you all as well. Lovely to have you. Now here's a quick question. How has marketing evolved in the building industry today?

Russ Stephens:

Well, I think the main thing that's happened over the last 15 years or so since the internet went mainstream is the whole marketing and sales process has been turned on its head. Nowadays, consumers are simply more informed than they've ever been at any time in history, and they no longer go to companies and meet with sales people and get drip fed information. Research is now the key and they do their research online. So, in terms of marketing, builders have to be providers of information online. That's the key.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm just curious. I mean, has the internet just changed things and that's why we're now moving through this transition, or in the last few months has everyone just jumped on Zoom and said that this is where we want to do business moving forward?

Russ Stephens:

This started long before the enforced changes that we've seen as a result of COVID. This really did start with the internet going mainstream, but of course it's certainly been amplified by recent events, with people being locked down, with having more time on their hands and yet unable to visit display homes, et cetera. They've been forced into this situation, which really has just accelerated it. We've already seen the guys who have mastered this over the last few years have cleaned up over the last 12 months.

Bosco Anthony:

Now with the new age of marketing, how has it impacted builders on a day-to-day operational value? What do they need to focus on and what should they be more accountable with?

Sky Stephens:

Well, I think the way marketing works today, certainly for building company owners, is that you've got to be leading with value. It is not a case of, "Buy my stuff. Inquire with me. Let's build a home." It's not that kind of marketing. It's completely different, exactly as Russ was just saying. It's leading with value, being the provider of information online, so we can be there when people are actually doing their research.

Sky Stephens:

If we can put out videos, blog articles and information on our social media platforms, and we're giving away such incredible value completely free, because that's the new way of marketing, we're giving out our best information. We’re explaining how to choose the perfect builder, how to choose the perfect block of land, how to design a home that suits your lifestyle. That's all incredibly helpful information. So we're trying to enter the conversation that's going on inside the prospect's mind.

Sky Stephens:

We want to answer their questions before they've asked them of us, because, let's face it, they're not reaching out to ask those questions. They're going to Google to ask those questions. Maybe they're thinking about it and you've done some interruption marketing, and you've answered a question going on inside their head that they didn't realise was a full-on question until your information came about.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, the rules haven't changed. They're still the same. People buy from people that they know, like and trust. This is simply what we're trying to achieve by being the provider of information. We're allowing people to get to know us, get to like us and trust us.

Bosco Anthony:

Sky, you brought up a really good point when you said it's about delivering value today. What if builders come to you and say, "Well, what if this value is free, we're giving up free information. How are we going to make our business if we're just putting all our time into giving away free value?" What do you say to that?

Sky Stephens:

It's such a good question, Bosco. That is such a scarcity mindset. If we think, "Oh, we need to lock away all of our secrets and all of our information, and they have to come to us to ask the questions and then we'll just bill them for our time," that's not how it works. In marketing, we are going to give away our best, most valuable information, which, by the way, is a very leveraged way of doing it. Because if you can put that information out there in a video, blog posts, different emails, your social media captions and campaigns, wherever, you're providing that at scale.

Sky Stephens:

Imagine if all those people who were looking and reading and watching those videos were actually reaching out and asking you one-on-one. Probably, you're answering those questions one-on-one at the moment anyway, and that takes up a lot of time. So, if you can do that at scale, there's actually so much more potential. Let's just look at this from an abundance mindset rather than a scarcity mindset.

Andy Skarda:

To back up what Sky has just said, I think we need to keep in mind the fact that when people are doing research, we may well be asleep. Again, it's making that value available at the time that suits the buyer. I think that's one of the fundamental shifts that we believe needs to take place, and that is whatever marketing you're doing isn't about you initially, but it needs to be about what is important to the buyer. That's the focus of where this needs to go.

Sky Stephens:

That's a really good point. If we're talking about new marketing, it's not all about us and what's so amazing about us, and here are all of our features and benefits. No. We're talking about marketing at the very beginning of this prospect's journey. It's about them. We're talking about them. What are they thinking? What are they curious about? What are they worried about? What are they concerned about? What do they desire? Let's tap in there right at the beginning.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you've all landed on what we call content marketing, and that seems to be the gist here. But do you feel that we're at an era now where content marketing and storytelling really impact a builder's business? Should builders become better storytellers today?

Andy Skarda:

Without doubt. That is the key to marketing in this new world that we live in. What we've got to understand is that part of what we want our marketing to do for our builders is to make them different, to differentiate them from everybody else who is out there. It's really a situation where they need to start to telling those stories. I think the stories come in two ways. Russ always reminds us that stories are how we remember things.

Andy Skarda:

If you think about the ancient hieroglyphics or we decide those were space men or whatever you decide that funny writing on the pyramids is, before the written word, the only way that people passed information on was by telling stories around campfires. So, it's really tapping back into that scenario where, as Sky has said, we need to present really good, valuable content at a place, and in a way that people want to consume it. What that does is not only differentiates us, but it starts to establish us as the authority.

Andy Skarda:

If we're able to articulate a person's concern better than they can themselves, they're going to automatically believe that we have the solution they are looking for.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. To add to that, there's such an art to storytelling as well because there's a way you tell a story to get someone to remember it. Think about it. If you've been around people in general, you know that you've been around some people who are just terrible at telling stories, or you're almost just hoping that they're at the end, it's over, whereas there are some people whose stories are so gripping, you know that everyone is listening. It's dead silent. They've got the entire room. Everyone is hanging on to every word that they're saying, because they tell really gripping stories.

Sky Stephens:

That is such a good key in marketing. Here’s a little bit of a recommendation. Someone who explains this very well is Donald Miller. He wrote a book called StoryBrand, where he really breaks down the storytelling formula so simply. Everyone in our team has read it and I think we've all said this: it's so simple. It's crazy how simple it is. But it's also so profound and you just walk through a very simple five-step formula to create gripping stories and you just see it play out in real life.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. We see this all the time, don't we? Any salespeople we've dealt with who we really liked, have told stories. That's really enabled us to bond with them. They haven't told us about how great they are, or their company is, or the product is. They've used examples, stories of past clients, so that it really resonates with us, and we remember those stories.

Russ Stephens:

With marketing, it’s just a sales person in print, really. It's really the exact same process in the written word.

Andy Skarda:

I think it’s a good point that Russ made there about using stories of past clients that have had great experiences. If I can use the Latin term, "Every one of us has a built-in bulls**t meter." The reality is when the builder is telling the story, because the client instinctively understands there is a reason for that story being told, the bulls**t meter's hovering just under the red. But when a client of that builder tells exactly the same story from their perspective, the meter comes back down into the green and they're much more open to receive that kind of story.

Andy Skarda:

What we're really saying here, it's not just the fundamental of telling the story. It's making sure that we find the most effective methodology for telling that story, and often, that's getting our past clients to do that work for us.

Sky Stephens:

That's a good point. They don't always have to be positive, though. The positive ones are a really good point. They're your proof of how the process was successful. But also the bad stories, what went wrong, the horror stories, people remember those as well. If you can comment on those, what actually went wrong and explain the reason why, that really can just add so much to your marketing as well.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah. That's a fantastic point because for a lot of people building a home, or remodelling, or renovating their home is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest single monetary investment they're ever going to make. They are naturally nervous. It’s important not to be hiding away from those horror stories, but to be literally putting them out there and saying, "These are the kinds of things that do happen in our industry," not pretending they're not there.

Andy Skarda:

I had a recent situation where I was at a barbecue and somebody asked me what I do for a living. When I told them, they said, "Oh, thank God. It's about time somebody sorted the 1-2-3 of building out." I said, "What do you mean the 1-2-3 of building?” They said, "Well, you only do it once, because it will cost twice as much and take three times as long."

Andy Skarda:

Unfortunately, I had to cop it because that's almost the default picture that people have of this industry. If we can all not pretend that doesn’t exist, but use those stories to our advantage, but pointing out that we have a solution to those kinds of things, that makes that content marketing even more effective.

Russ Stephens:

I love the way you explain that in a story, Andy. I’m going to remember that.

Andy Skarda:

There you go.

Sky Stephens:

To highlight that, though, that’s the difference. Good marketing is tips. It’s value. It’s information. Great marketing ties it back to something. You can explain a problem: “Here’s what happened. Here was the story. Here’s what happened and how it all played out.” Then if I give you some more tips now on how you solve it, you're going to remember that. You're going to remember that I provided that helpful bit of information, and I'm the solution. Even though I didn't solve the problem, I was able to comment and walk through what that solution would look like to that problem.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah. That goes back to what Russ said earlier, because that makes you like me. And because I'm helping you solve a problem, that makes you trust me. And because you spent 30 seconds listening to me, now you know me a little bit. That's the key with this content marketing. We get a lot of our builders say to us that it was quite amazing to be talking to their client for the first time, "But they were talking to me as if they were my old friend."

Andy Skarda:

The reason for that was they'd been consuming the content that the builder had been putting out for 12 months before they ever contacted him. So, it's building that relationship and that credibility to get the client to that place where they are ready to step into the sales process and then go from there.

Russ Stephens:

I was in a restaurant, probably about a year ago now. The person I was with suddenly waved at a couple walking out of the restaurant and said, "Oh, hi," and then suddenly realised, "No, I don't know these people. I've just seen them on Facebook."

Bosco Anthony:

That's a good reference point.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah.

Bosco Anthony:

Andy, you brought up a really good point about finding these stories and having those communication points with clients as well. With you being on the front lines and talking to all these different builders in the coaching side of things, do you find that builders have trouble sourcing where the stories come from, or do you find that builders just need to become better storytellers? Which one do you feel is the one that they need to focus on more?

Andy Skarda:

It's probably a mixture of both, to be honest, and it would depend largely on the builder himself and his personal view of it. We have a lot of builders who quite openly say, "I love building; I hate people." And then we have other builders who tell us, "We love people. We want to get somebody else to do the building." So it's really going to be dependent on the individual. But if we're talking about marketing as a process, it doesn't really matter who the builder gets to tell the story.

Andy Skarda:

They're going to need to provide that person or that organisation with the fundamental data that makes up the stories that are then going to be told in terms of marketing that particular builder's business. It's not really one or the other; it's going to be a combination of the two.

Bosco Anthony:

We have a lot of metrics that marketers measure their performance on when it comes to the success of marketing campaigns. What metrics should builders be looking at today when it comes to marketing?

Russ Stephens:

Well, we should probably start with what we don't look at, and that is cost per click, one of the most popular metrics in marketing and with marketing managers. But it's meaningless. It really doesn't mean a thing. Both Google and Facebook have proved this by doing an in-depth study, which is why Facebook uses a different metric, which is cost per landing page view. But the most important metric for a builder to look at initially is cost per lead.

Russ Stephens:

From there, they need to progress to looking at the cost per marketing qualified lead, and even the cost per sales qualified lead. Then, as they get better at marketing, they can go for more advanced metrics, looking at awareness metrics like cost per video view and cost per landing page view as well. But probably another metric that I'd say to pretty much discard, early on at least, is cost per sale, because although it is important, the sales cycle in this industry is just way too long to react, and you'll go broke before you refine your marketing.

Russ Stephens:

Again, this is something that a lot of marketing agencies simply don't understand when they get involved in marketing a building company. Just the sheer length of the sales cycle makes it very difficult for those guys to understand what's really going on and react and change.

Bosco Anthony:

Looking at the current landscape right now, where the builders are at, do they need to adapt to the current times? Do you feel like they're addressing the gap, or do you feel like there's still a long way to go?

Sky Stephens:

Without question, they need to adapt. It's one of those things where it's evolve or die. Marketing in general is one of those things that either you're all for it or you hate it, or certainly this is our experience when you start dealing with builders. They either love it or they hate it. You're either doing it or you're not. You're either doing it well or you're not doing it well.

Sky Stephens:

There's that fixed mindset of, "We've always done it this way." This is especially a problem when we start dealing with building companies that are multi-generational, that have been going for a very long time, that have been successful over the years. You really can't get sucked into, "Well, we've been going this long. We're this successful. This is how we do it. We don't need Instagram. We don't need to advertise over here. We do our radio adverts and we keep doing it this way, and this is the way it's done. We've been going this long. We're successful."

Sky Stephens:

That really is such a dangerous mindset to get into because it is different now. You're going to be left behind, and quite frankly, you probably are already left behind in a very big way, if you're not showing up online and you're not appearing where your prospects are now actually looking for you, or even not looking for you, because your prospects are on platforms like Instagram, Facebook and YouTube, and even Google, looking for some answers.

Sky Stephens:

If you're not showing up there, then you don't exist. So, absolutely, you're going to get left behind. You need to adapt to the current times. You need to evolve, or unfortunately, your building company is going to die a very slow and painful death because you are just getting left behind. You see a lot of newer builders coming into the industry and there's no fear. They get it. I think that's because they've gone from just being a user to now thinking, "Okay, now I need to actually market my building company to those users. Where have I been?"

Sky Stephens:

There's suddenly a different mindset. They’re are a lot more open. This younger generation of builders coming into this industry will completely take over. Builders who don’t do this type of marketing are going to get left behind, because, let's face it, even what worked five years ago doesn't really work the same today. It's evolved so much since then. So, gosh, if you're still using traditional methods from 10 years ago, it's dangerous.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. Thankfully, virtually all builders now, or any that are still left trading, have all realised that the Yellow Pages phone book does not work. People do not go to the Yellow Pages and look down the adverts to choose a builder to speak to. Fortunately, we got past that. However, a lot of builders are still content to rely on referrals, which is a very dangerous strategy for a building company. You can get exposed in that way.

Russ Stephens:

The other fact is that if you're saving money by not advertising and marketing your building company, you're not really saving money because your margins are compromised. Margins are linked to marketing, and if you're not investing between 3% and 5% of your revenue back into advertising and marketing, then your margins are going to suffer because of the law of supply and demand. It means you're going to be chasing jobs because you've got a smaller pool to pick from.

Sky Stephens:

It was Henry Ford who said, "A man who stops advertising to save money is like a man who stops the clock to save time.”

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. It's just futile. It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. The thing with building, just as Russ said before, is the sales cycle is so long in this industry. If you only start advertising and marketing when you need leads, it's too late, unfortunately. It takes so long to build that trust with your marketing and to get them into your sales process, and even worse, through the whole sales process. That's such a lengthy process.

Sky Stephens:

You need to be advertising while you're sweet; while you still have all your leads. You're working with people and you're booked out for a period, but you never turn your marketing off. If you only start advertising when you really need prospects, that's dangerous.

Sky Stephens:

Just piggybacking off what you said before, Russ, about referrals: a lot of builders tell us their marketing strategy is referrals. You can't technically call that a big marketing strategy if you're just relying on referrals and you've not actively got any real strategy in place to boost them. You're just at the mercy of who refers you. It's definitely not advertising and it's not a real strategy when you dig into it, with a lot of people we ended up talking to.

Andy Skarda:

I think the other thing on referrals that we've got to keep in mind is that you tend to then stay stuck doing the kind of work that you've always done, at the kinds of margins that you've always had, with the kinds of people that you've been hating for the last decade. The bottom line is the only way to break yourself out of that is to go out there and get a different type of person coming to you. That allows you to address your margins, as Russ has said, which is critical.

Andy Skarda:

Obviously, at the end of the day, and we speak about this often on this podcast, our fundamental desire at APB is to improve this industry for the builder and the consumer. So, if we're able to bring people in where we can give them a really good experience, bring the right people in, that obviously makes this process work better for everybody.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. We're not saying referrals are no good.

Andy Skarda:

No.

Russ Stephens:

What we're saying is referrals should be the cream on the top. It shouldn't be the cake.

Sky Stephens:

Totally.

Andy Skarda:

We always remind our builders: you can't make the phone ring. The problem is, whilst referrals are generally good quality leads, they are completely inconsistent. You put yourself into that feast and famine cycle where some months the phone is ringing off the hook and then other months it's tumbleweed and crickets and there's nothing happening. And there's nothing you can do to change that.

Andy Skarda:

That's the other big plus of your marketing activity. You actually get into the driving seat and you control what sort of lead flow is happening for you.

Russ Stephens:

You made a good point there as well, Andy. With referrals, you're going to get more of the same.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Stephens:

If you're not happy with the direction your building company has gone terms of its clientele, then, like Andy says, you've got to break out of that through advertising.

Bosco Anthony:

We've talked about radio advertising. We've talked about all these different formats of traditional marketing as well in advertising. Here's a hard question: is it still effective today?

Andy Skarda:

I can give you a long answer or a short answer. The short answer is no, it's not. It’s as simple as that. It’s primarily because the way that people now look for service providers, as a Sky alluded to earlier, is completely different. If you put yourself in the shoes of a potential buyer or potential client, as with everything these days, if I want something, what's the first thing I do? I Google it.

Andy Skarda:

I go and see if I can find it online. Then, when I have found it online, I go and look at the reviews to decide whether or not other people have been brave enough to step into that place. If enough people have done that, I will then follow suit. It's no longer a scenario where somebody will actually appoint a builder and work with that builder. Often, if you are contacted directly without any kind of marketing, it's purely somebody checking a price.

Andy Skarda:

Really, it's one of those scenarios where Sky talked about radio advertising and Russ has touched on Yellow Pages. There was a time when those things actually were effective. But we certainly see, from the metrics that we measure, that those kinds of things have very little impact these days.

Sky Stephens:

It's totally worth mentioning as well that the big reason for that is attribution. In the newer methods of advertising, paid advertising and marketing, there's so much more visibility, so you can actually have proper attribution of, "Well, where did that lead come from?" "Oh, it was a direct result of that campaign. I know it worked because of all of the metrics that Russ went through earlier. I know it works. I can spend more money on it.” That's such a benefit to all the newer platforms.

Sky Stephens:

Plus, you know you can just get more return because you can see you're getting in front of more people. Things like radio are such a scattergun approach because you're blasting a message to anyone and everyone who is tuning in at that point. It’s not a very targeted approach. It’s not using an algorithm with 42 million data points that these computers have built for us. I mean, let's use the modern technology here.

Sky Stephens:

But I think as well, just to piggyback Andy, probably the worst part about traditional marketing is that myth that crops up every so often from a lot of builders, and they repeat that phrase, "Just getting your name out there." The bottom line is, if they try and do any marketing, they think, "Let's just do TV or radio, or whatever it ends up being. If anything, we'll just get our name out there." Come on. It just doesn't work like that, unfortunately. You can't measure it. It's just such a myth.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah. Sky's just hit the other big key. You've got to be able to measure it. At the end of the day, you're investing incredibly hard-earned dollars into something, and you want to make sure that every dollar you're investing is bringing you back an acceptable return on that investment.

Bosco Anthony:

With us embracing this new age of marketing, what are some of the significant impacts to builders and their revenue, should they embrace this need to change? What can they expect to see?

Russ Stephens:

Well, done right, obviously, good marketing will grow a building company and increase their revenue. But the real impact for builders is not just their revenue, but it's their margins. That's the real key. Like I was saying earlier, margins are linked to marketing. This is the difference between a new home builder hitting the industry benchmark, which means marking up their jobs by 33%, and those guys who are struggling to put 15% or maybe 20% on their jobs and still win a job.

Russ Stephens:

They mistakenly believe that it's all down to price and that consumers are choosing the lower price. They're not. That is a myth. It comes down to their marketing, the fact that maybe they don't like that person as much, maybe they don't know that person as much, maybe they don't trust that person as much. That's not to say they dislike them or distrust them. It's just to say they haven't been given the information that would allow them to move down the certainty scale.

Andy Skarda:

If you don't give your prospective buyer anything different to what everybody else is giving them, you leave them with price as the only thing they can make a decision on. When I'm talking to clients, I always talk about my mobile phone. I happen to have an Apple 10 phone. You can buy the same phone anywhere in the world – an identical phone. How do I choose who to buy it from? I’m going to buy it from the guy who's going to give me the best deal, because this phone looks the same, feels the same, does the same, no matter who I get it from.

Andy Skarda:

The only thing I've got left is, "Let me make the decision based on what it's going to cost me." By making sure that you're marketing and advertising, particularly with the storytelling and content marketing stuff that we're talking about, you make yourself different. You add value, and that then moves the discussion and the decision away from just how much the build is going to cost.

Russ Stephens:

Of course, the other side to that coin is, why did Andy buy an Apple phone when he could have bought an Android a lot more cheaply? That all comes down to status.

Andy Skarda:

Well, and intelligence, I think! But I'll go with status for now.

Sky Stephens:

Brand is a big one. It's that know, like and trust. So you're more aligned to a certain brand. It's everything.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah.

Bosco Anthony:

I'm sure you guys have an example of a builder who's adapted to the new age of marketing. Part of this amazing podcast series is to really just open up the curtains and discover some of these insights. Tell us a story of a builder who has embraced this and you've seen success.

Andy Skarda:

With this particular builder and on this podcast, I don't want to mention his name out front. I'll tell everybody that it rhymes with Brian Flannard. He's not from Victoria or New South Wales. I'll just leave it there for now. But he's been part of our Private Mentoring group. In fact, he moved up into our Elite Mentoring group at the beginning of this year, and he has fully embraced everything that we teach in terms of content marketing.

Andy Skarda:

He's committed to it. He's investing in it. He's part of it. He's one of the best examples of a builder where clients walk into his office and treat him as if they've known him for years, which in fact they have. Although he's only just met them, they've been watching his videos and consuming the content over the years.

Andy Skarda:

The quality of the clients that he's getting to work with has risen exponentially over the last three years. He's just recently employed a brand new sales executive who has had somewhere in the region of 20 years in the project home/display home sales kind of environment. This guy was very sceptical when he first joined the company, in terms of whether this marketing stuff was going to work.

Andy Skarda:

He has been completely blown away by the quality of clients that he's getting to work with and the ease with which those clients are converted from an opportunity into an actual sale, simply because they've been properly educated. They've grown to know, like and trust the builder, and therefore, they're ready to move ahead much more quickly and easily than they would otherwise have been. So there's absolutely no doubt that this is exactly how it works.

Sky Stephens:

He committed in every which way. This wasn't a content strategy where he threw up a couple of blogs. This was regular new content every single month, coming out on his own website in terms of new articles. They were getting pushed out and paid to promote them on different social media channels, so more eyeballs could come through that way. Every single article came with a brand new video. Every single one of those topics and themes was complemented by a theme of social media posts for that entire month.

Sky Stephens:

It was all backed up by everyone already on his database getting that content broken down and emailed to them. This wasn't a light strategy. He jumped in, he didn't dip his toe in. He dived into that pool, and he can reap the rewards because of it.

Russ Stephens:

I think it's a great example as well, isn't it, as someone that maybe thought they didn't have too much to say or share. When we dug into it with him, he's been able to share so much great information, with his database for this target market.

Andy Skarda:

I think the other point that I remember so clearly about him is that the first time round, when he started down this road, he was so uncomfortable. It took him so far out of his comfort zone to be this person presenting the information on video. I remember one of the things he said to me was, "But doesn't everybody know this stuff?" What he was battling with was what I think a lot of us battle with, from a marketing perspective: we battle to put ourselves in the shoes of the client, and tell them things that are absolutely commonplace to us every day.

Andy Skarda:

We don’t stop to think, “Well, hang on a minute. The heart surgeon who can replace my heart has no idea about framing a house or how to get a wall true, or any of those kinds of things.” What we've got to understand is that, in a lot of cases, this is not reinventing the wheel. It's taking stuff that we already know, packaging it correctly, and then putting it out there for people to benefit from it.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. This doesn't have to be ground-breaking, new information, does it? 

Andy Skarda:

Not at all.

Russ Stephens:

New materials are coming into the market. We're just explaining the basics to make these people feel comfortable. It could be as simple as explaining what PS and PC mean [provisional sums and prime cost], terms that we use all the time. We don't think twice that not everyone understands that. People feel a bit silly when they're talking to us and we don't explain to them what these terms actually mean.

Sky Stephens:

I think hands down, the easiest place to start is if it's you doing the sales or you've got a sales team, just regroup. Have 10 minutes and jot down every single question you've been asked when people have made an inquiry in the last week. That's all your content right there. Start there because, as Andy was just saying, everyone who now comes through the door is so evolved. They're so educated, because you did it en masse. You were able to leverage that, and you were able to communicate widely to so many people, so that when people come to you, they've got a lot more advanced questions. They're curious about the next steps and what happens from here.

Andy Skarda:

And their expectations are realistic.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. Totally.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah. They're not walking in there with that ‘beer budget but champagne design mentality’ anymore. They've started to understand how this thing works, and that makes for a much more practical process in terms of getting them to contract.

Sky Stephens:

And it’s more enjoyable. Suddenly, your building company is so enjoyable. You have wonderful clients flowing through to you, getting attracted to you because of how you're presenting your building company.

Bosco Anthony:

We've talked about dependencies on cell phones and the new age where most of us rely on them today. How do builders stand out from the noise and the digital clutter that's out there? How do you originate ideas and really stand out today?

Sky Stephens:

The bottom line is to stand out, but it doesn't mean you do the opposite and you actually don't do anything, because everyone seems to be online. We’ve heard this a couple of times, people trying to be so different: "Well, if everyone's doing this, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to email my database. Everyone gets so many emails. I'll be different." Or, "I'm not going to be on social media," or, "I'm not going to advertise here." That's not the correct way to go about this.

Sky Stephens:

We want to stand out, not be completely invisible. So, we need to be very clear on why and what we're doing here. You've got to really sit down and map out a very clear strategy. It's not a scattergun approach. We're not just saying, "Okay, how much have we got this month to do on marketing? Let's throw it over here and just do some Hail Marys and see what we can get from it." Let's sit down and have a very, very clear strategy on what we're trying to achieve.

Sky Stephens:

If you sit down and you're trying to nut out a marketing strategy, the first place you start is internally. You want to work everything out to do with your building company, starting with probably the simplest thing, "Let's decide and be very clear on who our building company is, what we do and what we specialise in. That's our niche. What types of projects do we want to be the experts and specialists in, so that we can attract all the prospects who want to do that particular type of job?” By the way, the type of niche or what you specialise in should be the projects you enjoy doing the most and the most profitable ones. Otherwise, what's the point? Why are you doing this?

Sky Stephens:

So decide on your niche. Get very clear on your avatar, which is a very fancy word for your ideal clients. What do they look like? What is their age range? What do they do? What's their income level? Where do they hang out? Do they have children? Are they married? Let's know every single thing about our ideal clients. Then, let's go another layer deeper and understand all of our marketing messages. What's super unique about us?

Sky Stephens:

What's our unique selling proposition? What value can we deliver that's unique? Do we have any kind of guarantees, even if it's as simple as a satisfaction guarantee? What kinds of marketing messages can we really sit down and nut out and get very clear on before we spend a cent anywhere on marketing? Otherwise, it's not going to work. Then you can really flow through and decide on your content and how you're going to push that out there.

Sky Stephens:

That's going to mean creating some exceptionally valuable content, and putting it together well. You can use things like professional copywriters and do professional video production so you can shoot your videos and you have a teleprompter so you don't forget what you're saying. It’s so important, if you are outlaying all of that money and investing it into a proper marketing strategy, that you make sure you have something very seamlessly integrated so it can back it all up, follow up those inquiries automatically and with speed and with the same amount of value.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, that's a really good point because if everything else seems a little bit daunting, one way to very easily stand out from all the other builders out there is to respond quickly. How many builders do we speak to who tell us, "I didn't want to respond too quickly because I didn't want to appear desperate."

Sky Stephens:

Too many.

Russ Stephens:

They want to give the impression that they're busy and that the prospect should be grateful that they've replied. No. Get straight on the phone. Seconds count. You may not make the sale instantly on that return call, but further down the track, when you look at your conversion rates, the faster you respond, your conversion rates will increase exponentially because people remember you stand out from all those other builders.

Russ Stephens:

You'll probably have a nice conversation where they tell you about all these other building companies they've contacted that haven't bothered getting back to them. So, respond quickly when you do get an inquiry.

Sky Stephens:

By the way, you can be in demand and very busy with the line of prospects out the door and still respond immediately. Two things can be true. They don't go hand in hand. So, just because your building company is booked out for the next six, 12 or 18 months, and you're phenomenally successful, really the most phenomenally successful building companies should be responding quickly. That's how they do it. So, pretending, "I'll wait a couple of days so I look a little bit more in demand," it really just does the opposite. All they're doing is talking to your competition.

Sky Stephens:

Just like Russ said, you may not be making the sale, but you're making a first impression and people remember the first impression.

Andy Skarda:

Sky, as you're saying that, what jumps to mind for me is how incredulous builders are that people are happy to wait. When they are booked out for 12 to 18 months and they do respond quickly, they say to people, "How soon would you like me to start?" Then they tell people, "I can't start for 18 months." They're incredulous at how many people are quite happy to wait. 

Andy Skarda:

It's that old story. You arrive in a city you've never been in before, you walk out the front of your hotel and you look around for a restaurant to have dinner at. There's a beautiful restaurant over to the left that is empty, and there's one off to the right with a line around the block. Where do you go? You go and stand in line. You could have been finished your meal and be back in your hotel room if you’d gone to the other one, but you go and stand in line because that gives you the assurance that what's going on there is worthwhile.

Bosco Anthony:

What are some of the trends that we're seeing in the building space right now that are working?

Russ Stephens:

Well, certainly blog articles have been the big emerging trend. It's not really anything new. It's been around for a long time now, but we're just seeing a lot more momentum within the residential construction industry. A lot more builders have been adopting blog writing over the last few years. Probably more recently, it has transitioned into video creation, which is the simple process of verbalising what they've already written in their blog. It's as simple as going on camera.

Russ Stephens:

Verbalising that blog makes a big difference, because people prefer to consume videos rather than read now. We just all consume information in different ways. It's also getting the personality of the builder across as well. The more often builders do videos, the more comfortable they get. Because of that, we're seeing, obviously, that Facebook has been fantastic for builders over the last few years. Instagram as well has got more and more popular. YouTube seems to be becoming a lot more effective over the last 18 months. And then, of course, there's the old favourites like Google Display and SEO, which are still very effective channels for builders.

Sky Stephens:

You said something really good there, though. All your videos are just a repeat of your blog articles. This probably is the biggest stumbling block. We've talked about content marketing. We've not clarified this the entire time. Anything you say can be repeated in every single other platform because it's not likely everyone sees every single thing you are posting, whether it be an article, then a video, and then all of your different social media account posts, and then your emails as well.

Sky Stephens:

It's likely they're not seeing every single one of them. So, A, it's leverage. But B, if they actually are seeing every single one of them, it's not a bad thing because repetition is how we learn. So, they may not have even remembered it or just committed it to their long-term memory before, but because they see it again and then again, and they get another tip and another bit of helpful information, you're just educating your client that much more.

Andy Skarda:

What Russ said earlier I think is absolutely key. People buy from people they know, like and trust. If I watch you in a video for six minutes, I'm going to get a real handle on all of those non-verbal things that don't come across in text. So, immediately I get to see how you move. I get all of those other things going on. What that really helps me to do is to make my mind up on a much broader scale than just what I can read. That's a critical part in terms of adding to that process.

Sky Stephens:

It's the human factor as well, isn't it? If you were at that point where you were comparing two building companies side by side, and everything else was equal: same niche, same quality of photos, as far as you could tell, they had a ton of great information, but one did content videos with the owner talking to the camera, was very personable, very human, and the other didn't, you just tipped yourself over the line. You just did it.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. There’s a rule in sales called the 7/11 rule, which is seven hours and 11 touches. That's all we're trying to do with our marketing here. Everything that we produce, we're trying to build on those seven hours and we're trying to get to 11 different touch points. When we do that, it makes the sale so much easier.

Bosco Anthony:

I love the references on the call today. I'm going to remember the 7/11 and the 1-2-3 rule as well. But what does success look like in marketing for builders, if they get it right? What does it look like to their business?

Sky Stephens:

Well, I think we touched on this before, or Russ certainly did when he was explaining, that marketing will increase revenue. But the bottom line of the bottom line is your net profit, because your margins are a direct result of your marketing. So, what does success in marketing look like? This is very much a lag indicator of your net profit, because it takes so long to realise that.

Sky Stephens:

We could, just today, right now, start and properly commit to doing a decent marketing strategy. We can get our niche sorted. We've got all of our marketing messages down pat, and we are amazing. We did all of our content today. Say, we literally could wave a magic wand and start that today, we can't even realise that benefit in our accounts for months. I mean, look how long your sales cycle goes now.

Sky Stephens:

Even if you get the perfect inquiry today, you've got to work with them on the design, and then the prelims, then into a contract. And then you've got months there to even realise anything. So, it takes a while, and that's why you then need to look at your lead indicators and look at the metrics that Russ was talking about before, because otherwise, you really can just go crazy because you're not seeing the financial results as quickly as you want to. That's super important to bear in mind.

Russ Stephens:

"It's just about getting your name out there," said the marketing agency to the builder when they didn't want to be held to account on their result.

Andy Skarda:

Well, Russ, that's such a critical point, I think, in terms of this discussion, because the number of builders we have who –  because they don't really understand the subject – will get talked into a six-month or 12-month contract with a marketing agency that sends them 11,286 reports every month – and they're all meaningless. They literally are just smoke and mirrors at the end of the day, to justify the continued payment. As Sky said, it will be reflected in multiple results and eventually reflected in your net profit.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. It's not just marketing agencies either. There are certain channels, quite well-known channels, that are an absolute waste of money for builders. I don't think it would be right to name them here, but you have to be very aware where you're spending your money as a builder. Because the sales cycle is so long, it takes a long time to realise if it was successful or not.

Andy Skarda:

I saw an example of that today, funnily enough, on our private Facebook group.

Russ Stephens:

That's what I was thinking of, yeah.

Andy Skarda:

There was a discussion about a particular organisation that is well-known in the building trade for marketing. One of our members actually said, "I'm considering joining up. What should I do?" The response they got was so incredibly the same from everyone. Every single person who responded had exactly the same story to tell. It was incredible to see how that all came about.

Sky Stephens:

I think the most interesting thing about that is that thread pops up about every six months, and we always just wait to see it. Has it changed yet? Every six months someone else has tried it and it's the same result, which is actually quite interesting. But yeah, it's about every six months, it's on a rotation, someone else then us.

Bosco Anthony:

The definition of insanity is when you do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. What should builders avoid in marketing today, with the intention that they expect to get some results? But if it's not going to get them results, what should they avoid?

Andy Skarda:

Well, I think we've touched on it already. It's critically important, if they're going to work with an agency, that that agency has not only experience in the building industry, although that's a good start, but has runs on the board, has actually been able to deliver provable results in the space. Now it's a scenario where most builders almost want this kind of set and forget situation when it comes to marketing.

Andy Skarda:

If they get comfortable with the principles that we teach – and really that's all they've got to understand, although we can teach them how to actually do an ad on one of the social media channels or any of those technical things – the reality is, if they get to understand the principles of what works and how it works so that they can measure what is being done, that's going to put them in the best place possible. In terms of avoiding marketing, "Don't do anything you don't understand," would be the place that I would start. And then, make sure that if you're going to work with an outside agency, that they have runs on the board.

Sky Stephens:

I think to add to that as well, I feel like we could have a long list for this one, but the whole mindset and mentality of, "Build it and they will come," hosting and hoping, doesn't do anything. You may have the most amazing website. You may have a wonderful social media channel and you've got beautiful photos and you've got beautiful homes. It doesn't really matter in this day and age. "Build it and they will come," is not a thing. You actually need to pay these platforms.

Sky Stephens:

Google and Facebook worked out how they can make money and it's through advertising. You need to pay them. It's pay to play. So you have to actually spend money to get prospects to be able to see you and engage with you. You do have to build it, and you have to build it well. Make sure you've got proper calls to actions, so they can go into your marketing funnels, but you then need to pay to play.

Sky Stephens:

And then, to add one more to that list is the free quotes strategy. Way too many builders have been doing that for way too many years. It's not good for business. You do not want to be promoting that. You're just getting yourself into a terrible situation because whatever every single customer and builder should be doing is charging for all of their quotes. Offering free quotes as a marketing strategy is not a marketing strategy at all.

Andy Skarda:

Yeah.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. I'd avoid procrastinating because you may be busy now, but marketing is a bit like farming. You are planting the seeds for next year. You've got to be working so far in advance to keep your funnel full in your building company. If you don't, we know what can happen when things drop off a cliff. You have to really scale down quickly to avoid losing money. The best way to avoid that is to be always putting the binoculars on, looking further ahead and marketing now so that you are nice and busy this time next year.

Andy Skarda:

Imagine if you had to say no to some work. Imagine if you actually had more work of the type you want than you can handle. Gee, that'd be a terrible problem to have!

Sky Stephens:

I can feel some builders' heart rates right now. That's a scary thought, turning away work. If you're hungry, you want to eat, but that is how your margins increase even more. As soon as there's a line out the door, people are willing to pay more to get you sooner.

Bosco Anthony:

As always, this has been an insightful interview, with so many different thoughts around the board. I want to thank you all for being here today. Sky, Russ, Andy, thank you so much for your time.

Sky Stephens:

Thanks, Bosco.

Russ Stephens:

Thanks, Bosco.

Andy Skarda:

See you soon.