Episode 1: What Is The Association Of Professional Builders?

In the inaugural episode of the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, our host, Bosco Anthony is joined by the Co-founders of the Association of Professional Builders, Russ Stephens and Sky Stephens. Together, Russ & Sky share the journey of creating APB and exactly what the association does for builders.

The Association of Professional Builders is a business coaching company that helps residential home builders across the globe systemise their building companies. Specialised coaching on sales, marketing, financials, business operations and even personal development in order to operate a true professional building company.

From selling construction software to building a marketing agency and launching sales training, Russ and Sky have been on quite the journey before finally launching the Association of Professional Builders in 2014. Since then they’ve been transforming residential building companies into professional building companies with the ready-made systems that generate more leads, more sales and higher margins.

Tune in to the full episode to hear the APB story and exactly how they are improving the construction industry for both builders and consumers.

Russ Stephens - Co-founder

Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, Russ is a data analysis expert who has introduced data-driven decision making to the residential construction industry. Russ is also a proud member of the Forbes Business Development Council.

Connect with Russ

Sky Stephens - Co-founder

Co-founder of the Association of Professional Builders, Sky specialises in taking complex business strategies and converting them into actionable step-by-step guides for building company owners. Sky is also a proud member of The National Association of Women in Construction and the Top 100 Women in the broader construction sector.

Connect with Sky

 

Timeline

1:03 What is the APB?

1:52 How APB was born.

6:35 The biggest gap in the construction industry.

8:16 Who are members of APB?

16:56 Why generic business coaches are dangerous.

25:16 Transformations.

27:31 Professional builders vs average builders.

29:56 What's the future of APB and the construction industry?

 

Links, Resources & More

APB Website
APB on Instagram
APB on Facebook
APB on YouTube

Join the Professional Builders Secrets Facebook group for builders & connect with professional builders world-wide.

Bosco Anthony:

This is Professional Builders Secrets, the number one podcast to help you grow your building company safely and securely, brought to you by the Association of Professional Builders (APB). Join us every week as we talk to industry experts and your fellow professional builders on everything you need to know to generate more leads, more sales and higher margins while improving the building experience for your clients.

Bosco Anthony:

Hello and welcome to the Professional Builders Secrets podcast, a podcast by the APB for building company owners, general managers, VPs and emerging leaders. Here we discuss all things running a professional building company from sales processes, financials, operations and marketing. I'm excited to kick off our inaugural podcast today. I'm your host Bosco Anthony, and I'm thrilled to be joined by Sky and Russ Stephens, Co-founders of APB. Sky and Russ, welcome.

Russ Stephens:

Hey, Bosco. Thanks for having us.

Sky Stephens:

Hey, Bosco.

Bosco Anthony:

Lovely to have you here. Let's get into it. What is the APB?

Russ Stephens:

So, APB is a business coaching company for residential home builders. And we help custom home builders, re-modellers, renovators to systemise their building companies so that they can operate more efficiently, free up more time and, of course, increase their margins.

Bosco Anthony:

So, you're like the Master Builders or NAHB (the National Association of Home Builders) in the US?

Sky Stephens:

I have to say we're very, very different. It can always be a common misconception, but APB is incredibly different to any other association out there at the moment, because we primarily and only and exclusively focus on business and systems training for these residential building companies.

Bosco Anthony:

What prompted you to start APB?

Russ Stephens:

Well, this goes back quite some time ago, probably 10, 11 years ago. Now around about 2010, 2011, at the time, I was providing different services to residential home builders. Amongst them a contract signing service, where we would prepare contracts for builders and then meet with the consumers and get those contracts signed, which gave us a great insight really into what made consumers tick and their decision making process for signing with a particular builder. And then I came across some software in the US, some very advanced client facing project management software called CoConstruct, which I was blown away by.

Russ Stephens:

And after a quick conversation with Donny Wyatt [Founder and CEO of CoConstruct], we signed up the rights to be a provider, do tier-one support, do all the marketing and sales for CoConstruct in Australia, New Zealand and the UK. And it was that which really launched us in front of a lot of builders all across Australia and New Zealand. And actually seeing what was happening there with building companies, it really gave us a real insight into where the gaps were, what was making them tick. And it was about this time really that Sky had left school and was just getting started in university.

Sky Stephens:

Yeah, so I had gone to university and I have to admit it, I was not there long. I left pretty quickly, but I was going there to obviously learn about business, and I was particularly interested in marketing. And very, very quickly, I'm talking weeks into this course, I realised, "You know what? It's pretty out of date." 

Sky Stephens:

What we were learning was not what was happening in marketing. It was very out of date. So I ended up ultimately making the decision to leave university and actually learn about this and what's happening. You’ve got to think, at that time as well, that 10-year-ago mark, the internet was coming about in a big way. So, advertising was completely changing. And if I was going to get stuck in a course for a few years, I was going to get left behind.

Sky Stephens:

So ultimately, I made the decision to leave university and actually decide to learn about marketing on what's happening right now. And essentially, shortly after that, Russ and I, we decided to start a marketing agency and it was dedicated to – and specifically for – builders, and it was great. We started our marketing agency. It grew; it was fantastic. We were able to generate so many leads for these custom home builders all across Australia, and then we were able to go international as well.

Russ Stephens:

And then what happened, we were generating all these great leads for builders, but nonetheless, some builders were still struggling and other builders were doing really well. And the guys that were struggling were telling us things like, "These leads are no good. They're rubbish. I was much better off when I was just working on referrals. These cold leads from advertising, they just don't work." 

Russ Stephens:

So, we dug into that and we realised that the guys that were struggling, the one thing that they were missing was a documented sales process. So, with that, we decided to launch ACRIS Sales Training, which was the next step on the ladder, really. So, we were now generating all these great quality leads, but more importantly, we were now taking builders through a step by step process on how to take those leads through to a contract.

Sky Stephens:

And it was really interesting, wasn't it? Because it's like the exact same thing happened. So, while we were running our marketing agency, we could generate all the leads in the world for some builders. Why could some builders thrive and the others just run into problems? And it was the sales process. The exact same thing happened. 

Sky Stephens:

So, we could generate all the leads in the world for some builders. We even then doubled down and worked with them on the sales process, getting them better at closing and qualifying and suddenly you could generate leads and make sales. Why were there two camps of builders? How come some were thriving and others were still battling with low margins or problem clients or lack of financial understanding or systems within the company? 

Sky Stephens:

And that's when we really took a step back and realised we need to come at this with a much more holistic approach, and that's how APB was born and that's how it started. It was to have a much more holistic approach to running a professional building company. So, we don't just cover sales and marketing. It's also business operations, financials, and a lot of self-development and improvement to grow as the leader of a residential building company.

Bosco Anthony:

The industry's changed quite a bit. But if you look back, what were some of those really crucial gaps that needed to be filled? It sounds like you've brought so much to this industry over the last few years as well.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, I think the biggest gap, and it's probably where we always start generally when we're working with a building company, it's in their financials and helping builders to truly understand their financials. Because it's a very misunderstood topic. And in our experience, most accountants and bookkeepers do not even fully understand a construction company’s financials. 

Russ Stephens:

So that really was the big gap and in particular things like the work in progress accounting adjustment, understanding that, calculating that so you can produce an accurate balance sheet and profit and loss report. And also how to price their jobs as well, because most builders do not understand how to price their jobs. They'll get a bit of advice from other builders who say maybe, “I add 15% or 20% onto my jobs.” And so they just go out and do the same, and that's really dangerous.

Sky Stephens:

I think what else we've been able to plug in terms of the gap – because of all of that financial knowledge, because these systems we've been able to roll out into so many building companies – is we've been able to bring just another layer of professionalism to the industry. Now, whether that's from taking a very good building company and tweaking a couple of things and enhancing it and making it just even better or from taking a very early building company that maybe didn't have as many systems in place, weren't necessarily taught any of these pricing structures when they were getting started out as a builder and really just giving them the tools to be that much more professional in this industry, which is the goal.

Bosco Anthony:

Let's uncover the DNA of APB. Who are your members? Who should be joining and who are you looking for?

Sky Stephens:

It's a really good question because we're very, very particular with who joins APB. Now our members, they're all the owners, directors, general managers of residential building companies. So, you're building custom new homes or you're doing major remodels. Remodels and extensions, renovations and extensions. So yeah, essentially as a builder, that's who you are when you join APB. In terms of location, we've got members across the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and even the UK.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, that's interesting because you're based out of Australia, both of you as Co-founders of this in Australia, do you service builders across the world I guess, is what you're saying?

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. Absolutely. It's interesting because when we started off, obviously with builders in Australia, I think we were only like six, seven, eight months in and we started getting builders from the US getting in touch with us and approaching us. And we were able to see very quickly that these systems and processes worked and applied just as well to builders based in the US. 

Russ Stephens:

Obviously, we already had a lot of builders coming to us from New Zealand very early on, but you can look at that and think, oh yeah, that's very similar. But when you start going across the world, that kind of distance, there's always this preconceived idea that things are different here. We do things different, so it wouldn't work, but yeah, we found the opposite to be true there.

Bosco Anthony:

How do you keep up with the time zones with having builders? Do you have an international team?

Sky Stephens:

Yeah, we do. So, we've got our team members based across Australia, the US and Canada, so that it's a much more personalised service as well. Especially our executive coaches that look after our private clients. They are based locally, to look after our clients. 

Sky Stephens:

But I thought it was really interesting to go back to something that we were just talking about. It's the kind of builder that's attracted to us because I think it comes down to mindset again… when Russ was just saying, when we started having builders from the US start reaching out to us to see what we were doing and ask for a little bit of help over there. I think that really defines the kind of member and the kind of builder that joins APB as well. We talked about… quite simply the custom home builders or re-modelers and then the owners and directors of companies.

Sky Stephens:

But if you go a layer deeper, I think when you actually look at our member base and you get to interact with some of the builders that we've got across any of those countries, you're going to notice a whole heap more similarities. And I think the first one is mindset. It's actually being tenacious enough to go out and ask for help from the small company. Like quite a few years ago, all the way in Australia, asking, “Is this going to work? Can we see some of it? Can we get some help?” 

Sky Stephens:

So, it's a mindset of wanting to do better, be better, not just for their own building company, but for their families, for their team inside their building company. And of course, their clients as well; they want to deliver a 10-times better experience than this industry, unfortunately, is delivering to a lot of other people.

Russ Stephens:

I think what's interesting as well is our members love connecting online and speaking to other builders in different parts of the world as well. Which, I guess it's been surprising, but it shouldn't be really when you think about it, but yeah, we have builders in Australia, love connecting with builders in the US and Canada and New Zealand and just hearing about their businesses and what they're doing. And yeah, it's amazing that they all face the same challenges. They're all looking to overcome those same challenges in expanding and growing their building company.

Sky Stephens:

That's such a good point because you can watch it on our group as well, when builders are connecting all the way from New Zealand to Canada, Australia to the US, what's even more interesting as you look at the profile of those builders – so, whether they're big custom homes, multimillion dollar homes like palaces that you're building and then big renovators that are maybe in quite a rural area – when they're open-minded enough to see what they can learn from each other. We're still in the same industry, we're still in the same game, but what can we learn? What can we pick up from each other? When you see that kind of interaction, that's so cool to see.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. We have re-modellers in Queensland, hanging out with guys in California, building multimillion dollar mansions for very well known Hollywood stars. It's incredible.

Bosco Anthony:

The internet's definitely brought people a lot closer together in this day and age as well. So, tell me a little bit about these programs that you offer to the builders. Are they different in the US than in Australia?

Sky Stephens:

Look, I wish I could say we've got a portal for every single country, but the interesting thing is – Russ mentioned it before – we've looked at this a lot. We have spoken to… we have worked with so many building company owners across different countries. And the most interesting thing that we found is everyone does have the same problems, at the end of the day. 

Sky Stephens:

And essentially when we build a program and we build trainings, we are teaching the overarching principles, and essentially the strategy is always the same, no matter where the building company actually is. It might be very hard to believe, but the strategy is the same. Now the tactics might be slightly different, depending on where you are and who your audience is.

Sky Stephens:

But this is why we've been able to systemise so many building companies, because the systems are robust enough to work and then going that layer deeper, this is why we put on executive business coaches in each country so that our Private Mentoring program, not just our members, if they want to upgrade and work one on one privately with anyone on our executive coaching team, we have coaches in that country, so it makes a lot more sense for each of our clients.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah, for years, our head coach, Andy Skarda, he serviced builders in the US and Canada from here in Australia and still does a magnificent job servicing those guys. But there's always that degree of comfort isn't there? When someone is in your own country, you just feel that little bit of reassurance that maybe they understand your market a little bit more because they're actually on the ground. So yeah, that's been great for the guys in North America.

Bosco Anthony:

Sounds like you're both really focused on disrupting this space and really creating a new form of what training should look like in the industry. Tell me a little bit about this training that you offer. What does that look like for builders getting into it today?

Russ Stephens:

Well, we have two levels of training, really. And the first level that we offer is membership. It's easily accessible; it's affordable. And what that does is it gives every builder the opportunity to just sample the quality of information that is available. It will help to open their eyes to a better way of doing things. And it's completely affordable to anyone in business; it's at that level. And what that does is it enables these builders to access all of our systems online, to download them, to go through our programs, to download our checklists and guides and even attend monthly group coaching. 

Russ Stephens:

And when they see really the level and the quality of information available, that's when they can make the decision to progress into full private mentoring with APB, which is our next step. And that's where they get to work with their own mentor, their own coach who they'll meet with every month, as well as attend a Mentoring Mastermind each month, as well as, of course, having access to all the benefits that they get as members as well.

Sky Stephens:

I think what's really cool about our programs is obviously with membership, it's plug and play, it's on demand. When you upgrade and you level up and anyone in our Private Mentoring Mastermind totally knows this. We put so much focus and emphasis onto data. Anyone who's gone through any kind of system or training with APB would know how much focus we put onto financials. 

Sky Stephens:

Russ mentioned it just before, that anyone in our private program actually gets set up with a very specific Key Performance Indicator (KPI) sheet so that we can monitor every single figure in their building company, because we are never going to scale an unprofitable building company. So first and foremost, we work with data and it's data driven mentoring, which is that next layer. It's not so much reactive. It's very much looking at the building company, as it stands, looking at the data and seeing actually what do we need to work on first?

Russ Stephens:

And I think that's really what makes APB so different from virtually every other coaching company out there in the marketplace, apart from the fact we only work with residential home builders. So, all of our programs are specifically answering the question going on in a builder's mind and actually give them the solutions that they need. 

Russ Stephens:

But apart from that, it is the data driven decision making process that we use, because typically what will happen when you engage with a consultant or a business coach: you'll meet with them, they'll spend you know, five minutes. “So, Bosco tell me what's going on in the business?” And you'll pour that out and you'll talk about the challenges. And obviously the biggest ones will be top of mind and that's what's going to come out. And then they will go ahead and use all their years of experience and knowledge to prescribe a solution to that problem.

Russ Stephens:

However, when you analyse the KPIs, which we do, and you use data driven decision making, you'll find that the problem is very rarely… or the biggest problem in the business is very rarely… the one that the person is describing to you. Normally, that is a symptom of a problem elsewhere in the business. 

Russ Stephens:

And looking at the data, looking at the numbers, looking at the conversion metrics, and benchmarking that against the industry numbers, we can tell very quickly where the real problem is in the building company and what needs to be focused on and addressed first. And that really is the main difference between the APB and virtually every other coaching company out there, is the way we get to the root of the main problem and tackle that first.

Sky Stephens:

Totally; let's face it. Our industry is different and unfortunately not every single general business coach is aware of that, and it is so different in this industry and construction. You make a mistake with your financials, that's very painful and you can't afford to go through that trial and error. 

Sky Stephens:

And at the end of the day, anything that we would roll out as an example, whether it's in our membership and even our private program, it is proven because we're all about the data to be able to back it up. And because we're such specialists in the industry, I might add, we know how different this industry is. The financials component is just too important to overlook. Because we know that, we're able to set very realistic expectations as well. It's not like we're online stores where you can work with a business coach and you can have one idea and suddenly you sell a lot more the next month and it’s a much better month.

Sky Stephens:

In construction, the sales cycle is so long. Anything you implement today to actually try and increase your margins and have better profitability, anything from your marketing to then get a better lead to then selling to them at a better margin, that takes you months to realise. 

Sky Stephens:

So, we're able to set very clear expectations and guidelines and be able to track when it's going to pay off and what that actually looks like. And this is actually a really interesting topic. You could probably talk about this for another two hours, but I think when a lot of people get started in coaching, you want to see a result immediately, but we have to actually look at two different indicators. You've got lead indicators and lag indicators.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. I think most business coaches out there will tell you, “Well, business is business and it's all the same. You’ve just got to follow these fundamental principles.” But any builder can tell you that this industry is very, very different to any other. And it's dangerous to apply generic principles to a building company because you can destroy it very quickly. 

Russ Stephens:

Sky and I attended a presentation not so long ago by a very well known marketer in Australia who was on stage in front of close to a thousand people, I think it was, actually boasting and bragging about how he broke a building company because his marketing techniques were so powerful. They were so good that this building company scaled so quickly, they then fell over. 

Russ Stephens:

We were horrified. It was a terrible example to use, but he was using it as a badge of honour to show how good he was that he actually broke this company. And what he didn't share was that he sent seven members of one family into bankruptcy as a consequence of following that path. And this is why we always start with the financials, because if you scale an unprofitable company, you are heading for big, big trouble.

Sky Stephens:

I think that's what fuelled us actually. I remember sitting in that event and we just looked at each other absolutely horrified as he was telling this story. And literally there wasn't applause. This was such a world renowned coach, such an amazing marketer and it was so scary for us. We realised it's just not okay. We just have a responsibility to get in front of as many building company owners as possible and just get the information out there because – really this is perfect for an upcoming episode – he did it because of one financial calculation that he had no idea about because this industry is different, plain and simple.

Bosco Anthony:

Sounds like you put a lot of heart into what you do. Why do builders become members today? When you look at this growing enterprise of builders from around the world, what's that X factor that's leading to this massive growth?

Sky Stephens:

I think putting all the systems aside for one second, obviously there's a lot of tangible things you can get. We've got dozens of trainings on financials, sales, marketing, business operations, not just trainings, but all of the templates ready to go. These are already made systems that you can just deploy into your building company. 

Sky Stephens:

If you put that to the side for a second, it's a bigger picture. Like right now, if you were to join APB, you are joining a much bigger movement. You are joining a network of professional builders worldwide, who all have the same vision as you. It's to actually improve this industry, to make it a lot more professional and to essentially change it. We're trying to ensure that it's very standard. Builders get paid to create a detailed quote for a project.

Sky Stephens:

It's a much more professional industry. So, I think, yeah. Why would builders become a member of APB? You are joining a movement and really making change in the industry. And obviously to do that, it's everything that gets offered to our members. So, joining that network, you not only get access to an entire plug and play training portal, we call it, it's like Netflix for builders. 

Sky Stephens:

You can dive on in and choose the topic that you want to go through. Do you want to go into financial sales or marketing or even self-development to work on your leadership skills or mindset? And, you get to go through a training.

Sky Stephens:

And I might add they’re as long as they need to be: some of them are 40 minutes’ worth of video training. Some of them are one hour and 40 minutes, and they all come with some sort of download, maybe a checklist, maybe a full proposal template. Maybe it's a calculator on how to price your jobs, whatever it may be. That's what the training’s centred around and it’s video training to actually implement it. Because bottom line, you would join APB to get a result in your building company. It's to be more systemised, increase your margins and deliver a better client experience.

Russ Stephens:

It's easy to feel alone in business. And it happens in a lot of industries, but especially in the construction industry. And when builders join the APB, this is the one thing they tell us, “It's nice to know that we're not alone, and it's nice to be treated like a professional as well,” because as we travel around the country, meeting with our members, we take them out to nice hotels. We take them out to dinner. We hold high end events because we see builders as top professional service providers. 

Russ Stephens:

We see them in the same vein as lawyers and accountants. These are professionals that have something of value to offer the community. And that flies in the face of the way builders are thought of and treated in a lot of cases.

Bosco Anthony:

It sounds like you've built and you're building a strong legacy and foundation for builders out there from everything you’ve shared. Can you tell me a little bit about the milestones as Co-founders that you've had over the past few years that you're really proud of and things that you're taking to the market?

Russ Stephens:

Yes. I think the key milestones for us are our client successes. We look at builders that have come to us quite desperate in a lot of cases and seen how they've managed to turn their companies around with just a little bit of guidance and know-how. And that's resulted in saving building companies. It’s saved marriages in a number of cases. 

Russ Stephens:

And I might even go as far as to say, in some instances it saved lives as well, because let's not forget, this industry has a terrible, terrible record in terms of mental health and anxiety and depression and suicide. So we're proud of the fact we've been able to play our part in that aspect as well.

Sky Stephens:

If you think of actual milestones, a couple come to mind. Some clients were literally thinking of leaving the entire industry before they just stumbled on an ad at the right time and it inspired them enough to realise it can get better. They can keep going and now they have taken their building company to a completely different place and the next level and enjoy running it again because they are enjoying the network of people that they're connected to. We've been able to help triple and even five-times the size of a building company, profitably and enjoyably for our builders.

Sky Stephens:

They're the milestones; we actually get to hear that kind of feedback and familiar relationships as well. Taking family businesses or even just husbands and wives and actually seeing that transformation is actually really, really honouring for all of our executive coaches. 

Sky Stephens:

It's definitely stories that get shared quite a bit when they feel very honoured to be able to guide these building company owners through potentially some of the toughest times in their lives too. We get lot of builders that are already very successful when they come to us; it's getting them to the next level. Maybe even leveraging them out of their own building company. That's a true success as well.

Bosco Anthony:

Are you able to give us a snapshot between someone who is a member that is a professional builder and someone who's your typical builder, that's not heard of APB, who typically is just trying to make it work in this industry?

Sky Stephens:

Yeah. The main difference between any kind of APB member or any professional builder and a very average builder, I think bottom line is going to be systems. It's having a solid financial understanding, having systems in place in the building company so that it's not all dependent on one person. You're not stressed, you're not working evenings and weekends; you’ve just got to do it all over again because you're just on this hamster wheel. 

Sky Stephens:

Professional builders, they know that the way forward is systems. So, they are making time every single week to work on their building company. They have a mindset of, “How can I do this?” Not, “I can't do this. That's just the way the industry is. It's too hard.” That's very much an average kind of builder and they don't fit in well with APB because members of APB are professional builders. They're looking for a better way, not looking for an excuse.

Russ Stephens:

They have a much stronger financial understanding. Professional builders, APB members, they have a very clear understanding of their financials and what that does is when they understand their financials, they then value themselves, because too much of the time when they don't understand their financials, they look at the cash flow or they look at the amount in the bank account and they don't always value their time in the way they should. So really understanding financials helps them to value their time. And that leads to a change in mindset, which leads to a different pricing model, in what we've seen.

Bosco Anthony:

Hard question, are you building a cult?

Russ Stephens:

Well, this is a movement and we are looking to transform the construction industry. And I guess the word cult, it comes from culture. So, yes, we're building a strong culture because we have very strong beliefs on how a business should run, how a building company should operate. And that's because we really, we truly want to improve this industry for both builders and consumers. We believe that builders deserve to be earning more money than they're currently earning, but we also believe that consumers deserve a far better service than they're currently getting in this industry.

Bosco Anthony:

I think humans are very curious about visions and visionaries as well. And it sounds like you're on this mission and this path as well. What does the future of APB look like? Where is it going in the future?

Sky Stephens:

I think what we've built at the moment, we're exceptionally proud of it. It just needs to be a lot bigger. The members that we do have across the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK, it's just growing it. It's getting so many more members because that is how we will transform the industry. In terms of what is to come and what's happening, it's connecting those builders worldwide. We have the ability to do that online and through the internet, actually connecting builders from all different countries and states with each other. 

Sky Stephens:

And the next level beyond that is actually getting that physical connection back, actually bringing these builders together at our live… we call them networking events where we get to bring builders all together… all of our members where they can network in person with each other, because that is just so invaluable.

Russ Stephens:

Yeah. It feels like we've spent the last seven years really documenting all the processes and building the systems that builders can easily implement into their businesses to free up more time and increase their margins. And now the next thing that we need to do is get this information in front of more building companies. And that's truly exciting when you look at the potential really, of how many builders out there that we can help.

Bosco Anthony:

A final question, and this is a really good one to ask, especially with all the changes in the world, is where is the future of the industry going for the builders out there that are listening to this episode? What can they take from this and what can they hope for in the future?

Russ Stephens:

Make no mistake. This industry is getting more professional every year and that's driven by the fact that consumers are now more educated than at any point in history. And that can be a little dangerous, but also, it pushes us all to be better. So, we see a future where in this industry, professional builders are the norm rather than the exception, and that's going to be a major change coming.

Sky Stephens:

One hundred percent. It brings it all the way back to why we're here, to improve the residential construction industry, not just for builders, but consumers as well.

Bosco Anthony:

Well, that marks the end of our episode. I'm really appreciative for your insights, your time and sharing this amazing story. And I look forward to picking your brains some more and getting into some of these systems in the coming weeks as we shed some more light into the residential and construction industry as well. Thank you, Sky and Russ for being here today with us.

Sky Stephens:

Thanks, Bosco.

Russ Stephens:

Thanks so much Bosco. I really enjoyed chatting with you.

Bosco Anthony:

Thank you for listening. Remember to subscribe to Professional Builders Secrets on your favourite podcast platform and leave a review. To learn more about how the systems at APB can help you grow your building company, visit http://www.associationofprofessionalbuilders.com. See you next time.